It Has Started

[Colin_T]

A little while ago I started a thread on what would happen to fish keeping when oil runs out and air craft no longer bring us fishes from all over the world.
On the news tonight it was reported that several airlines (in Australia) where reducing the number of flights, sacking workers to reduce costs, and increasing the price they charge for cargo and freighting. Is this the start of the end for fish keeping as we know it? Are neon tetras and guppies going to increase rapidly in price? How many common & uncommon species of fish are still going to be available next year or the year after?
The time has come for people to start breeding whatever species they can. The people who supply fish in the future will be the same people who make money from over inflated fish prices.

 

[iankent]

i think its an excellent opportunity to cut out the major shops who are often supplying large numbers of fish in relatively poor conditions - while they may find it more difficult or expensive to get hold of large numbers of fish, it'll mean smaller breeders have a chance to provide good quality stock... hopefully

there's probably already plenty of most types of fish in most of the countries in the world between the breeders and fishkeepers, so it'd just mean more local breeding than import? that cant be a bad thing!

 

[gyillmard]

I dont think its the end of tropical fish keeping - but you are right that it will put prices up. In UK cardinals are flown from South America, makes you think there's a business opportunity there....GILLMARD

 

[kj23502]

I think it was just a matter of time until the price of oil went up. In the US, it's been way below inflation for so long.....

The problem I see, has to deal with the fish that are extremely hard to breed in captivity. Freshwater and Saltwater. Those prices are really going to skyrocket because they can only be brought in.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

i think its an excellent opportunity to cut out the major shops who are often supplying large numbers of fish in relatively poor conditions - while they may find it more difficult or expensive to get hold of large numbers of fish, it'll mean smaller breeders have a chance to provide good quality stock... hopefully

there's probably already plenty of most types of fish in most of the countries in the world between the breeders and fishkeepers, so it'd just mean more local breeding than import? that cant be a bad thing!

I hadn't thought of it like that, but I agree. We all know there are some fish shops out there who just care about profit and not the animals, if their profit margin is reduced enough they will eventually stop selling fish. I just hope it doesn't end up putting the smaller outlets out of business too.

Thing is though, aren't most fish farms in China and Japan, places like that, these are also the countries which have shown a lot of reluctance to 'buy into' treaties to reduce global warming and are amongst the worst offenders for CO2 emissions etc. So do you think these countries are gonna start caring and cutting back on flights??

 

[pinkdolphin_113]

i was gonna say, UK breeders (or just normal fish keepers) need to take advantage of the fish available now. if they're brought into this country and bred, they could be just as available and we wouldn't have to worry about the price of fish.

as global temperatures rise, we can release them into our rivers and lakes making them UK fish

 

[andywg]

i think its an excellent opportunity to cut out the major shops who are often supplying large numbers of fish in relatively poor conditions - while they may find it more difficult or expensive to get hold of large numbers of fish, it'll mean smaller breeders have a chance to provide good quality stock... hopefully

Or, following fairly standard economic principles, those that can afford to buy in bulk (large chain stores) will be able to continue to do so and thus have their ultimate retail price for fish shielded more from increasing costs than a smaller lfs. When raw product prices go up it isn't usually the large chains that go out of business first. Prticularly with something like P@H which can weather blips through not relying on fish for all of its trade.

I personally see this as nothing mre than panic, or scaremongering. Trade cargo going by air will be around longer than budget air tickets for chavs to get to Lanzarote. Last time I chekced the abomination to decent air travel that are easyjet and ryanair are still flying, so I won't worry any time soon.

quick edit---

as global temperatures rise, we can release them into our rivers and lakes making them UK fish

You do realise that there has been no global warming this century, don't you

 

[jayjay]

The people who supply fish in the future will be the same people who make money from over inflated fish prices.

If the prices rise to buy the fish, then surely people will make less money selling them? Unless they raise their prices more than the difference in inflation. Say you bought a loaf of bread for 30 pence and sold it for 50 pence making a 20 pence profit. If buying the loaf in the first place went up to 50 pence, most people would then charge 70 pence, to keep the same profit margins, not raise the price to a pound to make more money. So they will probably make just as much money as they do now...

I can't see imports of fish being cut off anytime soon, the large companies make a lot of money out of this business and people will continue to keep fish.

 

[pinkdolphin_113]

yea there has, its been rising since WW2. only by like 1oC though

 

[Egmel]

as global temperatures rise, we can release them into our rivers and lakes making them UK fish

You do realise that there has been no global warming this century, don't you

There's arguments for both sides of the coin on that debate. I prefer to call it climate change as it's not necessarily all warming, it's just a different climate from the one we've grown accustomed to. Whether or not it's caused by humans is yet another debate entirely.

However - regardless of that issue there is the point that you should never release a captive fish into the wild. You do not know what diseases it may be carrying nor what it's predatory habits might do to our native species. Just because they could survive in our waterways doesn't mean we necessarily want them there... ask Colin about rabbits in Aus and you'll see what I mean

 

[pinkdolphin_113]

i was jokin...


but it'd be nice just walkin round a lake and seeing a shoal of thousands upon thousands of cardinal tetras or something

 

[Egmel]

i was jokin...

I thought you might have been but you never know who's reading

but it'd be nice just walkin round a lake and seeing a shoal of thousands upon thousands of cardinal tetras or something

Hmm, maybe, though to be honest most of the lakes I visit don't have water clear enough to appreciate them, I think I'll stick with keeping them in aquaria... and maybe just get an uber indoor pond one day

 

[Colin_T]

Thing is though, aren't most fish farms in China and Japan, places like that, these are also the countries which have shown a lot of reluctance to 'buy into' treaties to reduce global warming and are amongst the worst offenders for CO2 emissions etc. So do you think these countries are gonna start caring and cutting back on flights??

Most aquarium fishes come from Indonesia, although China does supply some of the fancy goldfish.
The breeders and suppliers do not pay for the airfreight. It is the importer that pays for freight and they will be the ones who decide on whether or not to bring certain fishes in and how much the shops pay for them. So even tho various Asian countries will continue to breed aquarium fishes in large numbers, they might be stuck with lots of them due to the expense involved in sending them to other parts of the world. In the long run this will simply squeeze out a lot of Asian breeders and force them into bankruptcy and potentially put them on the streets as beggars.

One thing that will happen when freight prices go up will be the reduction of large fishes being sent around the world. Fish will be sent while they are smaller because they take up less space and you can get more into a bag of water. This means instead of being able to buy neon tetras that are 2cm long you will see lots of neon tetras that are only 1cm long. And any big fish will probably be from someone's tank, not brought in from overseas.

 

[iankent]

as global temperatures rise, we can release them into our rivers and lakes making them UK fish

You do realise that there has been no global warming this century, don't you

There's arguments for both sides of the coin on that debate. I prefer to call it climate change as it's not necessarily all warming, it's just a different climate from the one we've grown accustomed to. Whether or not it's caused by humans is yet another debate entirely.

I agree with that - Climate Change not Global Warming Not that I don't agree that CO2 etc. affects our planet, but IMO the impact humans are having on it is minimal compared to the CO2 produce by oceans and forests! (And there's plenty of evidence to suggest that CO2 levels actually FOLLOW the temperature patterns by about 200 years)

Our efforts and money would be better spent trying to prevent oil spills, and investing in renewable energy

One thing that will happen when freight prices go up will be the reduction of large fishes being sent around the world. Fish will be sent while they are smaller because they take up less space and you can get more into a bag of water. This means instead of being able to buy neon tetras that are 2cm long you will see lots of neon tetras that are only 1cm long. And any big fish will probably be from someone's tank, not brought in from overseas.

leading to higher mortality rates among pet fish as they're being transported younger and the effect of stress etc. will probably be more noticeable!

 

[andywg]

yea there has, its been rising since WW2. only by like 1oC though

WW2 was Last century.

Since 2000 global temperatures have not risen.

As to climate change: the climate is always changing. It has been hotter than it is now, and it has been cooler. We are slap bang between two ice ages(anyone remember the cries that we are heading for an ice age in the 1970s?) and the sun has recently been putting on quite the show of solar activity. There is little doubt we have had an effect, but I think it is classic human self importance that makes us think we are so much to blame.

Consider all the things that are the hottest/wettest/driest since records began. We have had records for about 100-150 years. The world is about 4.6 billion years old, so we don't exactly have a huge comparative record to judge against.