Is this parasite?

[jonnyc88]

Leaving the water to stand won't get rid of chloramine though as it doesn't gas off. And according to another thread you have chloramine in your tap water.

Do I need dechlorinator?

The below is from my local water authority: The average chlorine concentration for this Public Water Supply Zone from January 2020 to March 2020 was

www.fishforums.net

With chloramine, there is no option but to use a dechlorinator if you do a water change even if that's while using medication. But Prime is a cocktail of chemicals and Seachem won't say what's in it. The dechlorinator with the least chemicals is API Tap Water Conditioner, though it does not detoxify ammonia.

Thanks, I’ll get some API water conditioner just in case.

I’ve asked more questions and eSha rep is insisting I don’t use dechlorinator during water change. I think he is suggesting I stop treatment until the mini cycle completes, but I’m not sure how long that will take and what effects it will cause in the mean time if I don’t treat.

He is also recommending that I use four eSha products : 2000, EXIT, gdex and ndx to treat my symptoms.

At this point I’m not sure if he is trying to help or to sell more products ....

 

[jonnyc88]

The eSha rep also recommend full dose (1 drop per litre) per amount of water changes regardless of what day of treatment it is.

What are your thoughts on this @essjay ?

Also eSha rep suggest adding beneficial bacteria like Seachem Staibility which I knew helped during last cycle. I’ve asked to confirm if this won’t affect the meds.

 

[jonnyc88]

Just treated Day 3. Noticed 1 barb with stringy poop but this time it’s more black-ish and it fell off after a while. I definitely see improvement, so I will proceed dosing as advised here instead of what the eSha rep is saying.

 

[Essjay]

Exit treats external protozoan infections such as ich. To save me going back through the thread - do you have ich in the tank? If not, you don't need to use it.
Of the other meds, ndx and gdex treat two different types of worms as you know. They recommend 2000 as well because the worms can damage the intestine walls and bacterial infections can get in and 2000 is an antibacterial.


Do eSHa realise you are going through a mini cycle and need to do extra water changes? The treatment courses are usually short enough that they fit between weekly water changes.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

How long has the mini cycle been going on? Usually don't last more than a week if it's a mini-cycle, so maybe it is worth delaying treatment.

eSHA really should have a described method for dealing with chlorine and cloramines during treatment, because the eSHa-2000, the anti-bacterial med especially, caused a mini cycle in my tanks, so they should clarify how to do that, or produce their own water conditioner that can safely be used while medicating.

It makes sense for an antibacterial med to cause a mini cycle, so not mad about that, but since they know it usually will and it's a three day treatment, they should figure it out.

I didn't worry about my water conditioner durings meds, since I only had to water change as treatment finished and 24 hours before the next course started.

 

[jonnyc88]

Exit treats external protozoan infections such as ich. To save me going back through the thread - do you have ich in the tank? If not, you don't need to use it.
Of the other meds, ndx and gdex treat two different types of worms as you know. They recommend 2000 as well because the worms can damage the intestine walls and bacterial infections can get in and 2000 is an antibacterial.


Do eSHa realise you are going through a mini cycle and need to do extra water changes? The treatment courses are usually short enough that they fit between weekly water changes.

I had to explain what a mini cycle means so not too sure if the eSha rep fully knows what it is.

I’m happy to follow your advice here as it’s more relevant to my situation.

Day 3 of treatment today. Water parameters seem to be holding with 0ppm ammonia and nitrite. Nitrate is about 20ppm.
However judging by colour of Nitrite I would be expecting water change tomorrow, shall see.
Is it worth adding something like Seachem Stability or API Quick Start during treatment?

Notice one Panda Corydoras seem to be a loner so need to keep an eye on him. His bottom fins look slightly clamped but still seem to swim around normally.

Just gave small feed and so far no stringy poop noticed. Bamboo shrimp seems to be braver now going around tank looking for food. Barbs seem to leave them alone. Probably because of the size

 

[jonnyc88]

How long has the mini cycle been going on? Usually don't last more than a week if it's a mini-cycle, so maybe it is worth delaying treatment.

eSHA really should have a described method for dealing with chlorine and cloramines during treatment, because the eSHa-2000, the anti-bacterial med especially, caused a mini cycle in my tanks, so they should clarify how to do that, or produce their own water conditioner that can safely be used while medicating.

It makes sense for an antibacterial med to cause a mini cycle, so not mad about that, but since they know it usually will and it's a three day treatment, they should figure it out.

I didn't worry about my water conditioner durings meds, since I only had to water change as treatment finished and 24 hours before the next course started.

I think the mini cycle started about a day before I started treatment, so about 4 days ago.

My only concern about stopping treatment is that whatever parasite or infection that’s in the tank will slowly kill off the fish.

If I’m allowed to change water with dechlorinator and top up as suggested by @essjay I believe it should be ok to continue treatment? Especially since I do notice the reduction in stringy poop since treatment.

 

[Essjay]

I do wonder why, out of all the treatment manufacturers, eSHa is the only one to say that dechlorinators interfere with medication. They comment on dechlorinators removing chlorine and binding metals; if the active ingredient was a metal I could understand it as the part of the dechlorinator which binds metals would also bind the med. But praziquantel and levamisole are not metals.

Since the choice is between leaving ammonia/nitrite in the water and risking the med not being quite as effective, if it was my tank I'd do the water changes.

 

[jonnyc88]

One panda corydoras doesn’t look too good, it’s sitting there not moving much but seems to still have energy to pop to the surface once in a while and also avoid being netted.

Hope he pulls though.

 

[jonnyc88]

So I’ve written a very detailed email and from the latest reply, looks like the rep agrees with what @essjay advised Only exception is that if I change water I should re-dose 1 drop per litre changed, not 0.5 drops.

Does anyone know if it’s possible to use gDex and -Ndx same time? Looks like it only takes 1 day to dose -Ndx followed by large water change which can be timed during my gDex treatment.

Reason I’m asking is one of the panda corydoras seems to have lost appetite and -Ndx could help.

 

[Essjay]

With gdex you do a water change on day 5 then do nothing for 6 and 7, then repeat the course starting on day 8. Unless someone says this is wrong you could try this:
Day 5 - do a big water change as per gdex instructions then put some carbon in the filter (or a separate filter)
Day 6 - throw away the carbon and add ndx
Day 7 - do a big water change as per ndx instructions and run some new carbon
Day 8 - throw away the carbon and start the second course of gdex.

 

[jonnyc88]

With gdex you do a water change on day 5 then do nothing for 6 and 7, then repeat the course starting on day 8. Unless someone says this is wrong you could try this:
Day 5 - do a big water change as per gdex instructions then put some carbon in the filter (or a separate filter)
Day 6 - throw away the carbon and add ndx
Day 7 - do a big water change as per ndx instructions and run some new carbon
Day 8 - throw away the carbon and start the second course of gdex.

Thanks for the suggestion. I don’t think I will want to add carbon now and just wait until I complete full course of gDex. I plan to wait few days after completing gDex and see if the fishes still have stringy poop before deciding if I need to treat with ndx.

Adding carbon the last time seem to taint the water a little even if I gave the carbon good rinse so I’m bit doubtful of using carbon again in my tank.

Do I absolutely need to use carbon after completing gDex if I don’t intend to start another treatment soon after?

 

[Essjay]

A couple of big water changes will remove most of the old med. Using carbon doesn't take as much effort, that's all

 

[jonnyc88]

A couple of big water changes will remove most of the old med. Using carbon doesn't take as much effort, that's all

Ah ok. I was a big fan of carbon and even bought tub to refill on regular basis but to be honest I’m not really too keen on it now.

I’m on Day 5 so just did the bug water change. Can’t believe how clear the tank looks now. Fish also all seem pretty happy.

 

[jonnyc88]

Day 6 today. Tank looks really clear now which is a bonus. Water smells better too.
The water clarity could be a sign that I might have resolved whatever that was causing my persistent water cloudiness.

I notice one barb doing a stringy poop today but it got dis-lodged pretty quickly. It also didn't look at thick and white as before.

During the course of treatment unfortunately I've lost 2 panda corydoras.
I'm not sure if this is a pre-existing condition or something else. I've lost 2 pandas just before treatment started.

It's looking like one or two other panda corydoras are not looking too good. They are not as active and seem to be isolating themselves.
The only physical symptom I can see is very slightly clamping of their bottom fins, other that that they don'tseem to eat and lost a lot of weight before passing away.

The barbs seems to know and chase them when they try to surface. Noticed they were chasing the last 2 that passed away.
I've heard the panda corydoras are pretty sensitive to water parameter changes so could be a contributing factor.

Anyway, still thinking of doing the full gDex dose starting again on Day 8 just in case.