Is This A Ph Stumble? - Update

[pammy172]

Been doing our fishless cycle for 16 days now using household ammonia. Cycle going steady although added mature media a week ago but no serious kick start which we'd hoped for.

Readings since saturday are:
Day 14
09.00
Ammonia <.25 – woo hoo!!!
Nitrite – off scale 

10.00
4ml Ammonia added to 4ppm

7.00pm
Ammonia 1ppm
65% water change

8.00pm
Ph 7
Ammonia .25ppm
Nitrite > 5ppm
Nitrate 15ppm
5ml Ammonia added to 3ppm

Day 15
09.00am
Ammonia 1ppm

08.30pm
Ammonia 0.25

5ml ammonia added to 3ppm

Day 16
9.00am
Ammonia .75ppm
4ml ammonia added

9.00pm
Ammonia 1ppm
Nitrite – of scale
Nitrate – 7ppm
3ml ammonia added
Ph 6.6

Prior to today our ph has been steadily falling from 7.5 at the start, to 7.2 on day 7, 6.8 at day 11, then a brief rise to 7 on day 13 and now falling to 6.6. Should I be worried? Do I need to do anything/. Sould I add some baking soda?(that is Bicarb right?)

Don't want this to stall if we can help it.

 

[Truck]

Been doing our fishless cycle for 16 days now using household ammonia. Cycle going steady although added mature media a week ago but no serious kick start which we'd hoped for.

Readings since saturday are:
Day 14
09.00
Ammonia <.25 – woo hoo!!!
Nitrite – off scale 

10.00
4ml Ammonia added to 4ppm

7.00pm
Ammonia 1ppm
65% water change

8.00pm
Ph 7
Ammonia .25ppm
Nitrite > 5ppm
Nitrate 15ppm
5ml Ammonia added to 3ppm

Day 15
09.00am
Ammonia 1ppm

08.30pm
Ammonia 0.25

5ml ammonia added to 3ppm

Day 16
9.00am
Ammonia .75ppm
4ml ammonia added

9.00pm
Ammonia 1ppm
Nitrite – of scale
Nitrate – 7ppm
3ml ammonia added
Ph 6.6

Prior to today our ph has been steadily falling from 7.5 at the start, to 7.2 on day 7, 6.8 at day 11, then a brief rise to 7 on day 13 and now falling to 6.6. Should I be worried? Do I need to do anything/. Sould I add some baking soda?(that is Bicarb right?)

Don't want this to stall if we can help it.

i would do a 50% water change and then bring ammonia back up to 5ppm

 

[backtotropical]

i would do a 50% water change and then bring ammonia back up to 5ppm

Agreed. Water changes are the first port of call to address the falling pH. Bicarbonate of Soda (yes, you are correct) is usually recommended if despite water changes the pH keeps falling dramatically. This usually happens if you have soft water. If your water is hard, a water change is usually sufficient.

After the water change, remember to recharge the ammonia. I assume you are only raising to 3ppm for the second stage of the cycle?

Cheers

BTT

 

[fishman3]

Been doing our fishless cycle for 16 days now using household ammonia. Cycle going steady although added mature media a week ago but no serious kick start which we'd hoped for.

Readings since saturday are:
Day 14
09.00
Ammonia <.25 – woo hoo!!!
Nitrite – off scale 

10.00
4ml Ammonia added to 4ppm

7.00pm
Ammonia 1ppm
65% water change

8.00pm
Ph 7
Ammonia .25ppm
Nitrite > 5ppm
Nitrate 15ppm
5ml Ammonia added to 3ppm

Day 15
09.00am
Ammonia 1ppm

08.30pm
Ammonia 0.25

5ml ammonia added to 3ppm

Day 16
9.00am
Ammonia .75ppm
4ml ammonia added

9.00pm
Ammonia 1ppm
Nitrite – of scale
Nitrate – 7ppm
3ml ammonia added
Ph 6.6

Prior to today our ph has been steadily falling from 7.5 at the start, to 7.2 on day 7, 6.8 at day 11, then a brief rise to 7 on day 13 and now falling to 6.6. Should I be worried? Do I need to do anything/. Sould I add some baking soda?(that is Bicarb right?)

Don't want this to stall if we can help it.

pammy i have just been through something exactly the same as this.....! unfortunately i killed of my bacterial colony and had to start all over again so you can benefit from my mistakes!!


firstly if the hardness of your water KH is less than 7 then you need to think about regular water changes in order to keep the pH up in the 7+ range.

after talking to the guys on here crushed coral was recommended (can get some from your lfs). I put this into my filter housing in a filter bag (about 2 handfulls) and i am seeing my pH hold steady.

Remember to always dechlorinate the water when you do a water change!!!!

hope all goes well

Phil

ps i would definately recommend daily pH testing in order to take remedial action early and avoid disasterous consequences.

 

[pammy172]

Cheers guys. Can't do a water change tonight - will have to wait until tomorrow evening as OH is at work Finger's crossed it doesn't replicate your experience Phil.

 

[pammy172]

i would do a 50% water change and then bring ammonia back up to 5ppm

I assume you are only raising to 3ppm for the second stage of the cycle?

Yes - that's right isn't it?

 

[backtotropical]

Yes, its fine. It's a good way to stop nitrite from going off the scale.

 

[pammy172]

Looks like we might be too late ph down to less than 6 on API 5 on Tetratest ammonia munching only .5ppm over 12 hours. Nitrite still through the roof, nitrates falling to only 5ppm.

Have thrown some bicarb in for now and OH will get some coral tomorrow from the lfs. WIll then do a water change and put soe in the filter in the hope we don;t lose all the bacteria. Have also turned up the temp and aeration to try and save what we have.

OH is on nights so we just can't do a water change now.

 

[pammy172]

Well we might have just staved off a collapse. OH has checked the ammonia this morning and it's down to zero ph is 7.2. He's currently checking nitrite and nitrate - just because we can - lol.

I'm hoping that we got to it in time and haven't killed everything off.

He's topping up with 5ml ammonia to reach 3ppm, then we'll check later to see if it's reduced.

If it has and we've got the cycle going - what do we need to do to keep it running. Do we just keep putting a bit of bicarb in if we see the ph falling?

Once the cycle is complete, how do we keep it stable, I'm particularly thinking of when we have the fish in - or is it a case of when the cycle is complete it will settle of its own accord

eta:
Nitrite – 4 - first measurable reading for some time - not sure if this is good or bad after the past 36 hours.

Nitrate – 7 - a bit higher than last night but not much.

 

[pammy172]

little bump please - be grateful for comments, observations, ideas - ta

 

[pammy172]

if anyone's interested - OH has just done some more readings for fun:
ammonia - 2ppm
pH- 7 - 7.5
nitrate - 10ppm
nitrite - >5ppm

So looking like it is picking up.

 

[pammy172]

Last few day's readings:

24th Feb(Ph crash day)
10am
Ammonia 1.5ppm

8.00pm
Ammonia 1ppm
PH<6 API
Tetratest 5
Nitrite – off scale

25th Feb
7.30am
Ammonia - 0
Ph – 7.2
Nitrite – 4
Nitrate – 7
5ml ammonia added

9.00am
Ammonia - 4ppm

2.00pm
Ammonia – 2ppm
pH – 7.2
Nitrite - >5ppm
Nitrate – 10ppm

9.00pm
Ammonia - .25
pH – 7.2
Nitrite – off-scale
4.5ml ammonia added


26th Feb
8.00am
Ammonia 1ppm
pH 7.0
Nitrite – off-scale
Nitrate – 10ppm

6.00pm
Ammonia – zero
Ph 7.2
Nitrite off scale
Nitrate not tested
4ml ammonia added

So plan is to test ammonia in an hour to ensure we have between 3 & 4 ppm. Then in the morning(12 hours on) if ammonia at zero - do a 50% water change to dilute the nitrite to get to readable level, then feed ammonia to 3 - 4 ppm. Then measure 12 hours later to ensure ammonia is gone, if so feed to 3ppm and check nitrite. Then 12 hours later again - if ammonia zero - not feed, but to leave for a further 12 hours and measure nitrite and feed ammonia then.

Does this sound reasonable?

 

[pammy172]

Bump - please? Anyone have a view?

 

[pammy172]

Day 22 - Our ph has been falling again over the past couple of days and now reads only 6. Clearing all the ammonia, being added once daily now, but nitrites are still off the scale so not measuring nitrates.

Should we intervene with the ph or just ride it out? We don't want to undo what we've acheived up to now.

 

[OldMan47]

Pammy, there is no reason to keep bumping up the ammonia after 12 hours. Just feed it up to 5 ppm once a day. Getting the nitrites where you can watch them strikes me as a good idea, otherwise you will be flying blind. I would not let pH stay below 7.0 during a cycle and the cycle seems to move faster if the pH is way up close to 8.0. I don't think bicarb is able to move it over 7.8 but I may be wrong on the exact number. If you overdose it, you won't really know because the pH will stop going up of its own accord. I would try to not add more than it takes to get to about 7.6, that way you won't overshoot too much.