I Converted... To Barebottom!

[wuvmybetta]

i also dont mean to sound harsh but i think bare bottom tanks are for lazy fishkeepers

I also don't want to sound harsh or rude, but is keeping a tank completely free of decor any better than going bare bottomed? I keep wild bettas without substrate but I'd feel absolutely cruel if they didn't have some plants as refuge.

As for the discus, almost every discus person I know of (here in the states) keep them barebottomed. The loaches and cories probably should go unless Kage does as he plans and adds some sand for them somewhere.

 

[T1KARMANN]

i also dont mean to sound harsh but i think bare bottom tanks are for lazy fishkeepers

I also don't want to sound harsh or rude, but is keeping a tank completely free of decor any better than going bare bottomed? I keep wild bettas without substrate but I'd feel absolutely cruel if they didn't have some plants as refuge.

As for the discus, almost every discus person I know of (here in the states) keep them barebottomed. The loaches and cories probably should go unless Kage does as he plans and adds some sand for them somewhere.

well their is no need for decor but fish that have evolve to live in substrate like loaches cat fish and rays yes they do need it and have done for a very long time thats why the body shape has changed to live in the substrate were they live

do you think a polar bear would be happy in a nice central heated room i think not but he would still be happy if the room was very cold with no sofa so he wouldnt need decor would he


have you seen what happens to dogs when they try to run on a woodern floor well thats what it must be like for a ray or cory on a glass bottom tank

 

[wuvmybetta]

You're talking strictly bottom dwellers now....
The point is- not every fish needs substrate. And going bottomless is not only for the "lazy"

 

[T1KARMANN]

You're talking strictly bottom dwellers now....
The point is- not every fish needs substrate. And going bottomless is not only for the "lazy"

yes i was only talking about the bottom dwellers from the start anyway but now you mention it what other reason do fishkeeper keep bare bottom tanks for other than to make the cleaning easy

their is no hard ship in using a gravel cleaner when you do your weekly water changes to clean the gravel which will be enought to keep it clean anyway

 

[wuvmybetta]

I have to disagree. I don't keep mine gravel-less to make cleaning easier. I keep it gravel-less to keep it clean. Period. I just didn't appreciate that lazy comment.
And no need to express the ease of a gravel vac to me personally. I spend almost every night with mine, I know it well.

 

[simonbrown403]

I have to disagree. I don't keep mine gravel-less to make cleaning easier. I keep it gravel-less to keep it clean. Period. I just didn't appreciate that lazy comment.
And no need to express the ease of a gravel vac to me personally. I spend almost every night with mine, I know it well.

A lot of chiclid such a discus require high protein foods to keep them in tip top shape, the problem with these foods id theres a high percentage of waste as the fish cannot digest, all of the amino acids it contains, so the rest is excreted.

As well as the high load form the food they require ( remembering that discus come from rivers where water is flowing constantly to maintain the quality they need), you end up with detritus crap and uneaten food, which can go unnoticed and be burred in the substrate, where it can further pollute and carse anaerobic spots, that will produce nitrogen gas.

As most of us have already got a heavy work load and families it seams like the sensible thing to do to ensure that the tank is as clean as i can be and the fish are stress free.

I personally have witnessed PH drop from 6.4 to below 6 over night due to uneaten beefheart that was logged under some decore.

 

[KageBunshin]

haha. First of all I do not take offense to what anybody says. I think the world needs more tolerance and I take this as good feedback rather than negative crtisism. This why I join forums, not because I want to prove somthing, but to learn something. I agree with Wuv, that I also went BB to be cleaner and easier, but it is not THAT much easier. I will have to rehome my cories and clowns. I sorta knew that if I would post pictures of my tank I would be succeptable to flame from the "pros" but I went about posting it anyways because frankly, I am very proud of my tank.

Here was my inspiration to go BB: http/www.simplydiscus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35043

It is from a forum called Simply Discus. These people have dedicated their lives to this fish including preservation of the elusive wild strains. I am sure these people are not lazy because they perform up to 80% daily water changes.

But then if a perfect world, every one would have the same opinion or would agree to each other. Considering that this forum caters internationally, there might never be same conclusion. I would like to thank everyone for their critiques on my aquarium because it has helped me learn a great deal.

 

[T1KARMANN]

my point being it is no harder to keep any type of fish in a tank with or without gravel so why not give the fish somethicg that resembles nature we have already taken them from the wild so i feel we should do our best to try to replecate that in some way

we all decorate our homes why to make it more comftable to live in

all fish are used to light coming from above by keeping a bare bottom tank the fish is getting light from all angles which in its self is very sressful it muct be like a person living on a sunbed all their life

before someone says that fish breed in bare bottom tank so they must be happy thats rubbish as people have sex in cars but they would be more happy in a bed dont you think

 

[Durbkat]

Simonbrown403 you know how you said cichlids need high protein in their diet to keep to healthy what kind of food would I have to offer to my angels since there cichlids?

 

[KageBunshin]

breeders feed discus beefheart, very dirty... that is why they use BB tanks.

 

[Durbkat]

What are BB tanks

 

[KageBunshin]

what the topic is about... bare bottom.

The peices of heart would get stick in the gravel and cause lowered Ph alogn with a whole host of problems like Simon Brown has stated.

 

[wuvmybetta]

What are BB tanks

Barebottom, durbkat....

As most of us have already got a heavy work load and families it seams like the sensible thing to do to ensure that the tank is as clean as i can be and the fish are stress free.

True. true. Yesterday I did water changes on all of the big tanks, and I mean all of them. I have a 55 with around 180 betta juvies, bare bottomed, and a thirty long with around 70 wild betta juvies, and after wiping down the glass and looking in, there is no question that it is clean.
On to my big community, substrate tanks, the 120, the 100, the 50, and two thirties...since I was in such a nifty cleaning mood I took down some rockwork to get in unnoticable places and there was debris everywhere. If my cichlids didn't like to dig so much, and my catfish didn't love sand so much, I'd keep all of them barebottomed.
A friend of mine works in a strictly saltwater shop. They just moved from one building to another and upon setting up the new shop the owner decided that all of the stock tanks would be bare bottomed, just like my own lfs. It's just cleaner.

T1karmann, I can see your point, and I understand where you're coming from. But going without substrate doesn't make anyone less of a fishkeeper Fish adjust, you know that, I see you using the word 'evolve' enough

 

[Durbkat]

Oh I see. Is their any other high protein foods for cichlids like angels in a tank with gravel?

 

[SamUK]

Simonbrown403 you know how you said cichlids need high protein in their diet to keep to healthy what kind of food would I have to offer to my angels since there cichlids?

i feed my angels tubiflex and they seem to love it!!!


trouble is my plec is catchin on to it and he jus sits with his mouth over the entire block sucking on it and stops everyone else getting to it.

hes not the slightest bit scared of me either so i cant get him off lol.