I am sorry...

[Circus]

We all try our best, you and I included. Constructive criticism is welcomed, but other things can come across as rough - perhaps enthusiasm could be tempered with patience.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

Having worked/built/admin/mod forums for donkey's years, thankfully nowhere near as much now since they have a bad habit of taking over from life

You will always find that people will perceive comments incorrectly....misunderstandings happen in day to day life, not just on forums, even moreso when second or even third languages get into the mix...all patience goes out the window, all understanding goes in the bin and tempers fray everywhere

This is what is called a diverse community in its purest form. Forums like this one bring many nationalities together and each individual's grip on the (usually) English language is as varied as the weather outside

Whether you agree or not, makes no odds to me personally, but there should never be a need or a feeling to need a posted public apology. Just a quiet, polite note via PM usually suffices.

I know and understand the hesitancy to reveal your locations, but when misunderstandings through a language barrier happens, it can be a useful thing to see cos then the one who feels aggrieved can glance across and immediately think "hmmmm...possibly not English as first language, will cut them some slack and perhaps drop a nice, polite note to let them know that their wording might be a little off so they know for the next time"

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being over enthusiastic, nothing wrong with conversing an opinion that has worked for you for many years....and no need to make anyone feel bad just cos they do not express themselves very well.

We are all human beings. We are all living, breathing creatures. We all make mistakes and none of us are perfect at anything (even if some political types think otherwise )

Cut people some slack....heck...one the forums I built years ago, the owner lived in Houston and was Venezuelan, when he got married, he invited me to attend.....4 days spent in Houston on him and his family. Discovered from him that my daily chat with him regarding the forums had taught him to speak and write English better and helped him teach his mother English cos she couldn't speak or write it at all.

Personally I really do not like any member of a forum to feel the need to apologise for an incorrectly perceived language issue. I think it is sad and unneccessary. Cut people some slack cos no-one is perfect and not everyone has English as their first language.

 

[itiwhetu]

Having worked/built/admin/mod forums for donkey's years, thankfully nowhere near as much now since they have a bad habit of taking over from life

You will always find that people will perceive comments incorrectly....misunderstandings happen in day to day life, not just on forums, even moreso when second or even third languages get into the mix...all patience goes out the window, all understanding goes in the bin and tempers fray everywhere

This is what is called a diverse community in its purest form. Forums like this one bring many nationalities together and each individual's grip on the (usually) English language is as varied as the weather outside

Whether you agree or not, makes no odds to me personally, but there should never be a need or a feeling to need a posted public apology. Just a quiet, polite note via PM usually suffices.

I know and understand the hesitancy to reveal your locations, but when misunderstandings through a language barrier happens, it can be a useful thing to see cos then the one who feels aggrieved can glance across and immediately think "hmmmm...possibly not English as first language, will cut them some slack and perhaps drop a nice, polite note to let them know that their wording might be a little off so they know for the next time"

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being over enthusiastic, nothing wrong with conversing an opinion that has worked for you for many years....and no need to make anyone feel bad just cos they do not express themselves very well.

We are all human beings. We are all living, breathing creatures. We all make mistakes and none of us are perfect at anything (even if some political types think otherwise )

Cut people some slack....heck...one the forums I built years ago, the owner lived in Houston and was Venezuelan, when he got married, he invited me to attend.....4 days spent in Houston on him and his family. Discovered from him that my daily chat with him regarding the forums had taught him to speak and write English better and helped him teach his mother English cos she couldn't speak or write it at all.

Personally I really do not like any member of a forum to feel the need to apologise for an incorrectly perceived language issue. I think it is sad and unneccessary. Cut people some slack cos no-one is perfect and not everyone has English as their first language.

Well written, I just hope some of our more aggressive members read this and take note.

 

[Avel1896]

No, very sadly not, at that point (not sure what’s happening in schools now) and certainly when I was at school we weren’t taught the formation of the grammar for English - I had to find out what a ‘past participle’ was

You know in France for years ans years now, teaching has turned into dumbing down !

 

[Avel1896]

My second language is Spanish, and I am crappy at it. I always get terms mixed up. For example, the terms that are casual and the terms that are rude, or just stern. If English is your second language, then you get words mixed up. Don't worry. And, I've never noticed you being over-enthusiastic. I always thought of you as one of those members I can count on to give me some information.

Wow I'm touched !

 

[NannaLou]

You know in France for years ans years now, teaching has turned into dumbing down !

I think for us English (and this is a huge generalisation) we assume that everyone else will learn English as a second/additional language and we don’t need to bother. And if you are writing and speaking in your first language, you started to absorb those speech patterns in the womb!! So probably don’t need to be taught …I remember being at primary school and writing out the French verbs …Je suis, tu es, il/elle/ on est, c’est (and I’ve had to goggle those because I couldn’t remember them ) but we were certainly taught French Grammar…

 

[Avel1896]

perhaps enthusiasm could be tempered with patience.

Tempering my enthusiams (and spontaneity) pffff big job in sight
My students tease me this it !

 

[Avel1896]

I can not agree with you more ! except on a point :

Just a quiet, polite note via PM usually suffices.

you're right usually is the key word

Discovered from him that my daily chat with him regarding the forums had taught him to speak and write English better and helped him teach his mother English cos she couldn't speak or write it at all.

So true ! I'm currently experience this on a German forum about Syngnathus fish, particularly on Microphis deocata that is fascinating (to me).

 

[Avel1896]

I think for us English (and this is a huge generalisation) we assume that everyone else will learn English as a second/additional language and we don’t need to bother. And if you are writing and speaking in your first language, you started to absorb those speech patterns in the womb!! So probably don’t need to be taught …I remember being at primary school and writing out the French verbs …Je suis, tu es, il/elle/ on est, c’est (and I’ve had to goggle those because I couldn’t remember them ) but we were certainly taught French Grammar…

As French is a latin and greek based language it's a hard one !
In case of any help is needed, do not hesitate

 

[anewbie]

I think for beginners you need to provide constructive suggestion rather than absolute requirements. For example I see frequently people suggesting that beginners modify the ph of their water or not keep a specific fish they already have even if such fish can do reasonably well in non optimal ph. This is immensely dangerous if beginners try to modify the ph of their water for many reasons; so rather than help them achieve a viable but perhaps non-optimal condition for their fish they are made confused by both conflicting advice and trying to do things beyond their skill level that ultimately will be even more harmful for their collection of fishes .

I would suggest instead, where feasible, you try to move the needle to a more viable condition than an absolute optimal condition until the person has gained some experience.

Last but least it does no good to chide someone for keeping a fish in a condition that you feel is non-optimal. They already have the fish and chiding doesn't help the situation so why not provide them feasible direction for improving the situation within scope of their skill level than tell them how awful they are for having walked down this ill advised path ?

This doesn't mean you shouldn't educate the person but there is a fine line between educating and chiding.

As a concrete example: keeping a german blue ram at 75 degree is not viable for the fish but it should be within their skill level to raise the temp to 82.

Keeping at ram in ph 7.5 water might not be optimal but the fish can in fact do fairly well and it is very likely they would get into even worse trouble trying to change the ph of their water so just grit your teeth and accept it rather then tell them they are idiots for putting a soft water acidic fish in an aquarium with ph 7.5.

 

[itiwhetu]

I think for beginners you need to provide constructive suggestion rather than absolute requirements. For example I see frequently people suggesting that beginners modify the ph of their water or not keep a specific fish they already have even if such fish can do reasonably well in non optimal ph. This is immensely dangerous if beginners try to modify the ph of their water for many reasons; so rather than help them achieve a viable but perhaps non-optimal condition for their fish they are made confused by both conflicting advice and trying to do things beyond their skill level that ultimately will be even more harmful for their collection of fishes .

I would suggest instead, where feasible, you try to move the needle to a more viable condition than an absolute optimal condition until the person has gained some experience.

Last but least it does no good to chide someone for keeping a fish in a condition that you feel is non-optimal. They already have the fish and chiding doesn't help the situation so why not provide them feasible direction for improving the situation within scope of their skill level than tell them how awful they are for having walked down this ill advised path ?

This doesn't mean you shouldn't educate the person but there is a fine line between educating and chiding.

It is a pity to many people buy fish then ask questions later. It really should be the other way around. You don't buy a dog and then think about it's temperament after you have bought it, so why would you do it with a fish.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

It is a pity to many people buy fish then ask questions later. It really should be the other way around. You don't buy a dog and then think about it's temperament after you have bought it, so why would you do it with a fish.

True. But many of us have the advantage of having educated ourselves over the years. Most new fish keepers do not have this advantage. When I was a beginner, for example, I saw no reason not to trust the owner of the local pet store, and the few books on fishkeeping I could get at the library. I now realize, of course, that I was being given very, very poor advice. But I had no way to know that at the time. Beginners often do the best they can, and often that isn't very good. We are here to help, not judge.

It is, as you might say, important for some of our more aggressive members to take note, and cut others some slack.

 

[Avel1896]

It is a pity to many people buy fish then ask questions later. It really should be the other way around. You don't buy a dog and then think about it's temperament after you have bought it, so why would you do it with a fish.

I agree.
That said, I saw so many people buying/adopting a dog/cat young or adult because "it is so cuuuuuute", then realizing they need to be (re)educated to not pee/poo everywhere, to not bark indiscrimately etc, and because of that bring the pet back to shelter/breeder. I even witnessed a man briging back a very old dog to exchange him for a young one....

 

[Slaphppy7]

I agree.
That said, I saw so many people buying/adopting a dog/cat young or adult because "it is so cuuuuuute", then realizing they need to be (re)educated to not pee/poo everywhere, to not bark indiscrimately etc, and because of that bring the pet back to shelter/breeder. I even witnessed a man bringing back a very old dog to exchange him for a young one....

"I even witnessed a man bringing back a very old dog to exchange him for a young one...."

That's just plain wrong, how sad

 

[Avel1896]

I saw no reason not to trust the owner of the local pet store

They share a huge part of responsability, so do some books.

It is, as you might say, important for some of our more aggressive members to take note, and cut others some slack.

I guess I'm included in "more aggressive members" It makes me wish the person that called me 'toxic" will read your words too.

That's just plain wrong, how sad

You have no idea...