Hayleys New Cycle Log Pt 2

[HayzH]

thanks for that...

in Tank 1 there is the white/black sponges in the cartridge along with half of the media from Tank 2.and white biomedia (like pumise stone)in the middle cage.

Same in tank 2 (half and half) but no biomedia.

Tank 3 has sponge, a black scourer type piece and some white fluffy floss type stuff inside.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Ok. Sounds good.




Just something to think about for down the road. How are you are do-it-yourself?

It's not really hard, but you might help yourself a bit if you included some biomedia to the second and third tank. Here's what I suggest:

Go out and buy some ceramic rings, or something similar. You won't need a ton of the stuff, and you won't need to ever replace it. The stuff lasts forever and will be a permanent home to your bacteria colony. Just an occasional (every 3-6 months) rinse to remove excess gunk will be sufficient to keep up the flow.

A while back a member here, Tizer, posted some great pics of how to add ceramics to a filter set-up with sponges.
Check out post #5 for pictures.


You would want to cut the middle out of the sponges and add a few pieces of the ceramics from tank 1, and a bunch that you just bought to each of the other tanks filters. Then, replace the media you take from tank 1 with as much as you can to refill that filter without restricting water flow through it. (Remember, just a few pieces from tank 1, since it is still rather immature at this point).


The sponges in your filters will eventually need to be replaced, and doing so generally means losing your bacteria colony. Doing this will enable you to take a piece of sponge out at a time as needed (every few years) and still have plenty of bacteria to recolonize the new stuff.

 

[HayzH]

Tank 1

----------------Ammonia---------------Nitrite------------------Nitrate----------------PH-------

Day 54S)-------/----------------------1.50---------------------/--------------------8.1------
DOSED 2.8ml
Day 55M)-------/----------------------1.0----------------------/--------------------8.0------ Nitrite low again

Ok...due to many saying enough is enough....i have bit the bullet and added some fish to Tank 1.

A Sunshine Platy (Bubbles) Male. Biggist.
A Half Moon Platy (Rex) Male. Smallest.
A Blue Platy (Lewis) Male. shy one.

Guess im in a fish-in cycle now to finish off my cycle.

reduced temp to 25deg with a 50% waterchange (sandvac) Added slowly over the hour.

http/i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc327/HayzH/STIVES17thOct-21stOctandfish018.jpg

Since this tank has been up and running its been clear of Ammonia and Nitrites have been 0, so added 2 more platies (Bob and Tiger) and 4 more Cory's.
Things were still stable...so a few days later i added Jackson, my Beautiful royal Blue Betta.
My Filter decided to give up the ghost (possibly gunk filled problem), so i returned to P@H, and Den gave me £12 off a new one.
I've cleaned up the other one and will keep i as a spare.
Since the filter has gone berserk, the tank has shown some Ammonia of 0.25...so i did a sand clean and 50% W/C yesterday (1/11/11)

2/11/11
9am Ammonia was 0.25 again....
4.30pm 30% W/C, swished media cartridges in tank water ... de-gunked!
All fish active, good colours and still fighting to see whos boss!
3/11/11
9am Ammonia back to 0 and Nitrite 0 Nitrates are 20 PH is 7.6 .. not feeding them today..they are piggies!
test this morning...... AMM..........NI.........NA.....PH

http/i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc327/HayzH/tanks005.jpg
4/11/11
9am Ammonia showed slight green tinge last night..but could not be 100% sure.
Tests this morning show Ammonia 0 and Nitrite 0 Nitrate of 10 and PH 7.6.
all fish happy fed tiny pinch of flake crushed up small. and 1 wafer broken up for the Cory's.
Still slightly concerned about Jackson's tail with a hole..i bought Metafix but someone said not to use it with Betta?? Can't find Bettafix.
5/11/11
9am Ammonia is 0 Nitrite is 0 Ph is 7.6...champion!







Tank 2


----------------Ammonia----------------Nitrite-------------------Nitrate-----------------PH------

Day 48S)-------/----------------------5+-------------------------/---------------------7.8-------
DOSED 3.6ml
Day 49M)-------/----------------------5+-------------------------/---------------------7.8-------
DOSED 3.6ml
Day 50T)-------0---------------------5.0-------------------------/-----------------------7.4-------
DOSED 3.6ml
Day 51W)-------0---------------------5.0------------------------110----------------------7.7-------
DOSED 3.6ml
Day 52T)-------0-----------------------5+------------------------110---------------------7.8-------
DOSED 3.6ml
Day 53F)-------0-----------------------5+------------------------110---------------------7.4-------
DOSED 3.0ml tried a lower dose of Ammonia
Day 54S)-------/-----------------------1.0-----------------------/-----------------------/---------
DOSED 3.0ml
Day 55S)-------0-----------------------2.0-----------------------/-----------------------7.2-------
DOSED 3.6ml again
Day 56M)-------0-----------------------5+------------------------110---------------------6.8------- Buffered
DOSED 3.6ml
Day 57T)-------0-----------------------5+------------------------110---------------------7.3-------
DOSED 3.6ml
Day 58W)-------/-----------------------5+------------------------110---------------------7.6-------
DOSED 3.6ml
Day 59T)-------/-----------------------5.0-----------------------/-----------------------7.2------- Buffered

this mornings tests.....NI........PH (high and norm)
http/i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc327/HayzH/tanks006.jpg

reduced dose to try to sort these bacteria out!!

DOSED 1.4ml to take it to 2ppm. Tested water at 11.30pm and it showed 0.50 of ammonia...hmm it either processed it quickly, or the dose wasnt correct.
Day 60F)------0-------------------------0-----------------------100----------------------7.6------- buffered
DOSED 1.4ml
Day 61S)------0------------------------0.25---------------------/------------------------8.2-------
DOSED 1.4ml






Tank 3

---------------Ammonia-----------------Nitrite-------------------Nitrate------------------PH-------


Day 38S)-------0----------------------0.10-----------------------/----------------------8.3------ Was blue for ages then turned Lilac
DOSED 2.4ml
Day 39M)-------/------------------------0------------------------/-----------------------8.3------ FIRST DOUBLE 0's........
DOSED 2.4ml
Day 40T)-------0-----------------------0.10---------------------15.0-----------------------8.3------
DOSED 2.4ml
Day 41W)-------0-----------------------0.10----------------------5.0---------------------8.2--------
DOSED 2.4ml
Day 42T)-------0-----------------------0.30---------------------50.0---------------------8.3--------
DOSED 2.4ml
Day 43F)-------0-----------------------0.50---------------------110----------------------8.2--------
DOSED 2.4ml
Day 44S)-------/-----------------------0.75----------------------/-----------------------/----------
DOSED 2.4ml
Day 45S)-------0-----------------------0.25----------------------/-----------------------7.8--------
DOSED 2.4ml
Day 46M)-------0-----------------------2.0----------------------110----------------------7.8--------
DOSED 2.4ml
Day 47T)-------0------------------------5+----------------------110----------------------7.8--------
DOSED 2.4ml
Day 48W)-------/-----------------------5.0----------------------110----------------------7.8--------
DOSED 2.4ml
Day 49T)-------/-----------------------2.0----------------------/------------------------7.8--------
Tests this morning......NI.........PH
http/i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc327/HayzH/tanks007.jpg
DOSED 2.4ml
Day 50F)-------0.25--------------------5.0----------------------100+---------------------8.0--------
DOSED 1.2ml
Day 51S)--------0-----------------------0------------------------/-----------------------8.0-------- reduced dose as advised.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Your nitrite readings with the reduced dose looks good. Did you water change Tank 3 before dosing at 1.2mL? If not, then you can slowly increase the dose on Tank 3 back up and increase your testing to every 12 hours. That will help give you a better picture of what is going on.


As far as Tank 2 goes, how long between dosing and testing was the drop from 2ppm to 0.5ppm for your ammonia? It seems like your ammonia was clearing in 24 hours (or less) at 4-5ppm, so if it was 4-5 hours or more, then it fits well. If it was like an hour or two, then there might be a bit of a mistake somewhere.

 

[HayzH]

Your nitrite readings with the reduced dose looks good. Did you water change Tank 3 before dosing at 1.2mL? If not, then you can slowly increase the dose on Tank 3 back up and increase your testing to every 12 hours. That will help give you a better picture of what is going on.

yup i've given it another 1.2ml dose tonight..then will slowly up it to the original dose. No i didnt W/C before reducing.

As far as Tank 2 goes, how long between dosing and testing was the drop from 2ppm to 0.5ppm for your ammonia? It seems like your ammonia was clearing in 24 hours (or less) at 4-5ppm, so if it was 4-5 hours or more, then it fits well. If it was like an hour or two, then there might be a bit of a mistake somewhere.

i dosed at 9pm and it said 0.5ppm at 11.30pm..so 2.5 hrs. I am going by the calculator in the beginners section, on how much Ammonia to get it to 2ppm.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

That's not an unreasonable amount of time for a drop of 1.5ppm ammonia, given the duration of the cycle to this point. When the cycle is complete, the ammonia will be dropping from 5ppm to 0ppm in well under 12 hours. (or on average faster than 1ppm every 2.5 hours. So, dropping just over 1ppm in 2.5 hours isn't exactly unheard of.)

The good news with Tank 3 is that since you didn't do a water change, your N-bacs are fully operational! They removed about 5ppm residual + 5.2ppm (your 2ppm ammonia processes into 5.2ppm nitrite) a total of 10.2ppm in 24 hours! For a cycle to be complete, you need the bacs to process 5ppm ammonia into 13ppm nitrite and through that in 12 hours. Ultimately, you are getting fairly close. I would add 1.6mL next, 2.0mL, and then back to the 2.4mL. Don't increase to the next dose until you get back to double zeros though. Chances are that you may spend a day or two on each, possibly more.


***If you find that you are absolutely going nuts about not having fish in the tank, you could just hold at that level of ammonia and just complete that level of ammonia and wait for it to clear in 12 hours. Doing this would give you only half the head room to your cycle, so you would want to stock accordingly. Limit your stocking to no more than 1/4 total, if you ask me. So, lets say it was a 30 gallon tank, you could add 30 inches of fish. I wouldn't add more than 7 inches though on the initial stocking. And I would watch the levels very closely. Then, when adding more, add no more than 3 inches at a time to allow the bacterial colony a chance to adjust. (Remember to wait at least 2 weeks to a month before adding more fish. This will give the bacteria colony a chance to adjust to each new stocking. (Also, if you go this route, be absolutely sure that you start with the hardiest fish. As I mentioned before, certain fish are more sensitive to immature tanks than others, such as neon tetras.)

***Disclaimer: this is not the normal advice given regarding how to finish a cycle. It will work, but the chances of ammonia/nitrite spikes increases the sooner you add the fish. The shorter your "qualifying week/period", and the less your dose, the greater the chance of spiking. Spiking isn't a huge deal (assuming you are testing daily and are prepared to take the proper steps). Just be aware that there is a greater probability.

 

[HayzH]

WOW ..yet again a reply and and a half. Thanks so much.

I am happy to wait for the last 2 tanks to cycle..so will up the dose as suggested. Tank 3 had double 0's this morning in just over 12 hours.
Tank 2 is still behaving very strange...i still have a "which test colour chart should i go by?" issue..if i go by the card from the master kit is reads 2.0ppm of Nitrite...and by the smaller card which came in the replacement test box...it reads 1.0 of Nitrite ???
Why is it not processing anymore?? I added 1.4ml Amm to this tank (70L) at 10pm last night. and tested at 9am. Ammonia reading was 0..has been for months now. is the filter not powerful enough??? its a aqua international 200 with spray bar.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Yeah, my responses are a bit long. I don't like to give just a one or two sentence response as they can sometimes be misinterpreted. I'd also rather give you more information than you want/need, because it might benefit you down the road or someone else who is seeking advice without posting. Ultimately, the more information you have about the process, the more likely you are to be able to make the correct decisions about where to go with your next step.


The turnover rate of the filter should be roughly 5-10x the volume of the tank per hour. I have a 56 U.S. gallon tank (roughly 50 U.S. gallons of which is water, once you subtract for the volume of substrate, rocks, etc.) and use two hang on the back Penguin 200 filters (200 gallons per hour flow). So, my turnover rate is roughly 8x. Planted tanks require higher circulation rates, but not necessarily higher filtration.


If your tank is 70 liters and the filter you mentioned is 200Lph flow, that might be a bit low end but, it is probably not an issue. Remember that 1ppm ammonia processes to 2.6ppm nitrite, so it takes a colony roughly 3x bigger than the ammonia colony to process the same amount of waste. I would just be a little more patient (as hard as that sounds). Since you are testing Tank 3 every 12 hours, it might not be a bad idea to test Tank 2 at the same time. It would give you a nice picture of what is going on. The question regarding the color charts for nitrite really is a non-factor at this point. If nitrite is not zero, then the cycle is still on-going. No need to fret about the exact number. Truly the value of fishless cycling is learning about the process of fishkeeping and ultimately, as much as you are trying to keep fish, you are really trying to keep bacteria just as much. It's helpful to learn about them so that you can act accordingly if disaster strikes so that you don't make things worse. Right now, I would just see how things progress over the next few days.

 

[HayzH]

Thank you.
Yes i test all 3 tanks every morning (12hrs) will carry on.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

What's the latest update? Are things turning in a better direction?

 

[HayzH]

Tank 1 was clear 0-0 this am
Tank 2 was Amm = 0 Nitrite = 5.0? Nitrate = 100 Ph = 7.8
Tank 3 was Amm = 0 Nitrite = 0.50 Nitrate = 100 Ph = 8.0

just updated log

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Nice!!!


I would hold the status quo on tanks 2 & 3. Don't bring the dose back up until the nitrite hits zero, but things are moving with tank 3. (And I'm even more happy to see Tank 1 holding at zeros!)

 

[HayzH]

so why after 64 and 54 days has it not even processing 1.4ml and 1.2 ml of Ammonia???

 

[eaglesaquarium]

It is processing the ammonia. Your ammonia reading is zero. The issue is that it is not processing the nitrite fast enough. These are separate species of bacteria. They have different needs, reproduction rates, etc. In general, the A-bacs are easier to cultivate, but easier to kill off. The N-bacs are slower in reproducing, but much hardier. This is time well spent, although frustrating. We've all been there.

There is so much that we still don't know about these bacteria. The fishless cycling method is relatively new to the scene, but it is effective and a properly done fishless cycle is far less prone to future mini-cycles than fish-in cycling. Think of it this way, fish-in cycling can take 6 months or more sometimes to reach your ultimate stocking goal for the tank. Meanwhile you are performing daily (sometimes twice daily) water changes during that entire time. The fish are stressed due to elevated ammonia and nitrite, and so are you... the entire time. On the flip side, with fishless cycling, you can fully stock your tank in one go, if you so choose, although most aquarists start smaller than that. I started much smaller, but have since built up to full capacity. I'd like to add some more fish, but without another tank that is impossible. I'm happy with the ones I have. I just wish I had some apistogrammas! They are some truly beautiful fish! If you complete this process, your tank will be ready for the full complement of fish and you don't have to worry about ammonia/nitrite. You will still have to deal with an immature tank, so don't add any of the more sensitive species.

This process takes time. Being a fishkeeper requires patience. Keeping fish is very different from other pets. Other pets live in the air that you do and their waste is always kept separate, so it can easily be disposed of by the keeper. Fish, on the other hand, are very different. They swim in their waste. But, the good news is that you never have to pick up poo while enjoying a nice stroll around the neighborhood. Any no one ever complains that your fish were barking all night keeping people awake, etc. They require minimal input from the keeper and provide a proven tonic to high blood pressure and stress. Its a pretty sweet deal, really. The problem that you are having is that you haven't gotten over that initial hump yet with all these tanks. Most people don't start with 3. Its usually just one. You are an extreme case of MTS (Multiple Tank Syndrome). It usually takes a few months or years of fishkeeping before someone goes out and gets a second or third tank. You started off that way!

 

[orandas]

Most people don't start with 3. Its usually just one. You are an extreme case of MTS (Multiple Tank Syndrome). It usually takes a few months or years of fishkeeping before someone goes out and gets a second or third tank. You started off that way!

hehe its my fourth year now, and i now have MTS. i like watching the small fishes the size of my thumb, grow into the size of my palm, so i have a smaller tank for the small ones, otherwise they wud be bait for my 3 year old ones,if kept with them in the larger tank.