Guppies

[Bonnied2005]

Where to start, I suppose the beginning works well....
In November I was given a 2 gallon tank which not knowing what I was doing, I set up the tank let it run 24 hours like I had been told by a friend but then went out and bought a ton of fish... 2 weeks later I realized I had over populated the tank as my fish were dying so I went out and bought a 5 gallon tank..

The 5 quickly became a 10 when my guppies started dropping fry...

So now I have 3 issues:

1. My 5 gallon tank contains 2 of the surviving fry, and 3 cory cats (one albino). The tank is not cycling at all and my ammonia level is in the 8+ range. Treating the tank with Nitromax to spead up the biofilter but it doesn't appear to be working.

2. My 10 Gallon having the same problem. I had in there, 4 guppies, 2 zebra danios, 2 black neons, 2 small angels, 2 Neons and 2 corycats.

My guppies were looking a bit worse for the wear this morning, 2 of them having developed popeye, so in an effort to reduce the size of my community and save the guppies at the same time I have reset up the 2 gallon which is now housing the guppies. I did an emergency set up of this tank this morning using water from the 10 gallon as to not shock them. Half tank water half distilled water. The guppies seem happier as they are swimming around the little tank and not just hovering at the surface like they were in the 10..

Tank readings are:
10gallon-
Ammonia- 8+
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-0
PH 7.0

5 Gallon
Ammonia 4+
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-0
PH 6.2

2 Gallon started with an ammonia of 8+ but has quickly dropped down to a 2.0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-0
PH 7.0

Note: Both the 10 and the 5 gallon tanks have carbon in the filter media along with zeolite crystals.

the 2 gallon I purposly did not add the carbon in case I need to add medication to the tank however I did add the zeolite crystals which may account for the drop in ammonia after letting the water cycle for a few hours before adding the guppies.

What does everyone think my chances are at saving all these fish, especially my guppies since they seem to be taking on the brunt of the hi Ammonia levels. And what if anything can I do to get this dang tank to cycle.... From all that I have read, Nitromax is pretty much the same as the bio stuff others have talked about in this forum.... Supposidly live bacteria, the bottle is refrigerated and has an expiration date...

Help appreciated.

 

[WILDER]

there overstocked what type of angels are they as they need really big tanks.

 

[Bonnied2005]

They are small angels not sure exact strain.... About the size of a quarter...

Right now in that tank (10 Gallon)
2 Angels
2 corycats
2 black Neons
2 neons
2 zebra danios

going by the theory I read of inch of fish per gallon of water I should be ok there.

My main concern is for my guppies right now. I discovered my male with popeye yesterday but it isn't that bad just a little puffed in one eye..... my females were all fine but this morning I discovered one of them, the left eye has ballooned out. Both the male and that female had been sticking to the water surface hovering in one place unless chased. Now the male seems happy in the new 2 gallon he's swimming about merrily with the other two females but the one female affected is still sticking to the top.... All but one seem to be breathing a bit rapidly but I have to keep in mine that the 3 females are pregnant and ready to drop their fry any second. One of them going on 40 days ughhhh poor thing looks like she could explode.

Bonnie

 

[WILDER]

Keep an eye on nitrites if get high do a water change, for the popeye you will need to use an anti internal bacteria med, popeye can be caused by poor water quality, do you have aeration in your tank as this will help tanks, also add some salt to the guppy tank one tablespoon to 5 gallons, good luck.

 

[sylvia]

To speed it (the cycle) up, get media or gravel from an established tank.

Read through the links in my signature.

Do lots of very large partial water changes of around 75% with de-chlorinated water until you see a drop in ammonia. Test daily.

Move all the sick fish to the small 2 gallon and treat them with an anti-biotic. Change the water (100%) daily as you won't have a cycle in this seeing as the anti-biotic will kill the bacteria. I will not lie, you will probably lose these fish.

Now - the rest of the fish can remain devided between the 5 gallon and 10. You have to return the angels and zebra danios to your LFS - neither is suitable for your tanks. The danios require a 20 gallon and the angels need a 30 gallon of a minnimum 18" in height.

Neons and black neons are schooling fish which you can't realy keep in adequately sized schools with your current stocking but you can deal with this later.

Neons, angels and cories are not good fish to cycle with. Guppies have also become quite fragile recently but I know you can keep all your fish alive (apart from the angels...) if you keep up with water changes until your tank is cycled and then sort out your stocking.

Good luck

 

[sylvia]

The 'inch per gallon' guideline applies to adult sizes.

 

[Bonnied2005]

Thank you for replying to me by the way. It's nice to have a sounding board when all seems helpless.

I do have an air stone in the 10gal and a air wand in the 5 gallon.... But because of the emergency setup on the 2 gallon I don't have one in there yet.... Have a filter and a heater (all the spare parts I got, LOL). I am going to the fish store tonight and will grab a small airwand for the guppy tank.... I don't have any gravel in the guppy tank either, wasn't planning on adding any since this was setup as an emergency hospital tank....

and right now I have no sign of any nitrites or nitrates in any of my tanks.

 

[Bonnied2005]

To speed it (the cycle) up, get media or gravel from an established tank.

Read through the links in my signature.

Do lots of very large partial water changes of around 75% with de-chlorinated water until you see a drop in ammonia. Test daily.

Move all the sick fish to the small 2 gallon and treat them with an anti-biotic. Change the water (100%) daily as you won't have a cycle in this seeing as the anti-biotic will kill the bacteria. I will not lie, you will probably lose these fish.

Now - the rest of the fish can remain devided between the 5 gallon and 10. You have to return the angels and zebra danios to your LFS - neither is suitable for your tanks. The danios require a 20 gallon and the angels need a 30 gallon of a minnimum 18" in height.

Neons and black neons are schooling fish which you can't realy keep in adequately sized schools with your current stocking but you can deal with this later.

Neons, angels and cories are not good fish to cycle with. Guppies have also become quite fragile recently but I know you can keep all your fish alive (apart from the angels...) if you keep up with water changes until your tank is cycled and then sort out your stocking.

Good luck

Ok I am very confused with your reply... For everything I have read it states not to do extensive water changes as it will kill off any good bacteria there is.... I don't have alot of space to be storing large amounts of water to distill unless I fill jugs and leave them on the porch but then they are too cold to utilize.

Starting to think I've gotten into more than I can chew here......

As for my angels and my zebra's well I have a 55 gallon tank to put them in when the time comes but for now I believe they are fine in the 20. I understand that the 1 inch per gal rule is adult sizes however, they are not adults yet so therefore I should still be ok for now....

I appreciate all your input however, just failed to give you the BIGGer picture, sorry about that..

But I am still confuzed about the massive 70% water change you suggested.... I did actually do a huge water change like that 2 weeks ago when the tank got extremely cloudy... I was not aware at that time that the cloudy was actually a good thing and I paniced, hense adding all that tap water although treated with conditioner most likely killed off the good bacteria that was attempting to bloom in my tank. Sighhhhhhhhh Trial and error so they say.

 

[Bonnied2005]

Went to the petstore tonight and inquired what AB would be best to treat the popeye in my fish.... This particular pet store is very knowledgable and usually very helpfull but I think they might have goofed this time... heck we are only humans after all Anyway they sold me Maracyn One... but according to the pamphlet inside popeye should be treated with Maracyn Two.....

Do you all think that the Maracyn One will help at least until I can get some Maracyn II or do I even need the Maracyn II...

Confused and Dazed.

 

[Sorrell]

The cloud you are seeing are bacteria blooms and it's part of cycling, so that's a good thing. The majority of the bacteria will colonize in your filter and some in the gravel so 75% w/c won't hurt them, but just keep the ammonia down.

Are you sure your tests are correct? I can't even fathom a fish being alive in ammonia of 8

The difference in Maracyn and Maracyn II refer to gram positive and gram negative infections. Popeye is bacterial, so you could treat with either, but if you start with one, don't switch to the other.

 

[Bonnied2005]

I can only assume my tests are correct since I get different readings from each tank, along with a zero reading from straight tap water.... keep in mind however that as soon as I realized the reading was so high I immediatly treated the tank with Ammo Lock which is probably the only thing keeping my fish alive right now. But I read earlier in another place on the web that usage of ammo lock will make the cycling process come to a halt since it is locking up the ammonia and the nitrites can't form.... I am at a loss!!, my only hope is that daily water changes and the nitromax(bacteria supplement) work. Unless anyone can offer other advice.... I know I could use media from a petstore but to tell you the truth the tanks in the stores around me are not the cleanest. I'd be affraid to put there stuff in my tanks.

 

[Slyspy]

I think that you and your fish are in trouble. Those already ill will probably not make it, but it is of course worth a try. As for the others you must reduce stock levels and cycle the tanks. I can provide some tips for you, for what its worth:

Water changes are essential if cycle with fish. It slows the process down but will help keep the fish alive. Small changes daily and large in emergencies.

All tanks should have a substrate since it provides a larger home for the bacteria than just a filter.

You do not have to let water stand or use distilled water if you use a dechlorinating water conditioner like Aquasafe. A water change with treated water will not harm the bacteria.

IMO no other chemical should be used in an aquaium (except meds and maybe plant fertilizer) especially when cycling since some will cause you to have false readings and can stall the cycle. Many are a waste of money.

Keeping young fish in a tank unsuitable for their adult size may stunt their growth and cause behaviour problems so if you must keep the larger fish move them out ASAP. I would take them back (though whether your LFS will take fish in this situation I don't know).

 

[Bonnied2005]

I was doing a daily 10% water change until I read it was not good and I should only do it once a week... Guess I will go back to the daily.

All of my tanks with the exception of the hospital tank (2gallon) have gravel, even my two beta bowls. Hospital tank was set up yesterday morning in an emergency and without the aide of carbon in my filter since I am medicating the tank I felt it best not to run out and buy gravel to throw in there to harbor even worse bacteria that the carbon would normally filter.

Thank you for mentioning that the conditioner will instantly make the water safe for the bacteria in the tank. I do condition my water but was under the impression the water had to sit for some time before the conditioner would take hold, so I've been boiling the water letting it cool and yet still adding the conditioner in case boiling didn't get all the bad yuck out.

Here is a question though, Can I siphon say 2 gallons out of the 10 Gallon tank... add conditioner to the tank and then add the 2 gallons back in as tap water??? I haven't quite figured out how to condition a 1 gallon jug of tap water yet as the measurements are in 10gal increments and my measuring spoons don't go that low. Or does the conditioner need to be in the water going into the tank... Lots to learn here.

So far the guppies are hanging in there, and I do mean hanging.... All but the male are at the top of the tank huddled together. the male seems to be sticking to the bottom. As of last night when I fed them, all but one of the females ate, she could be getting ready to drop her fry or she maybe starting to come down with something. She is one of the two that had no signs of infection as of yesterday. I chose to treat both the unaffected guppies as well as the affected because they are so fragile and the popeye seems to have spread from the male to the one female afflicted rather quickly. Thought it best to be safe than sorry.... Plus the lowered ammonia levels in the 2 gallon would be better for them.

Going to do a quick water change on that tank at least before I head off to work, If I have time will get the 10 Gallon as well, but since the remaining fish in the 10 are not showing signs of distress I may wait and do it on my lunch hour instead...

Thanks again for all the great advise, I see now that you can't believe everything you read here on the internet... Alot of bad advise out there..

You all are awesome. Just wish I had you when I started these tanks.

 

[Bonnied2005]

Happy to report after a week of treatment my guppies are doing great in the hospital tank. My males eye is back to normal, the female has a slight puffyness to her eye but not nearly as bad as it was, and the remaining two continue to show no signs of the dreaded illness.. All 4 seem content and are playing happily together. No more sticking to the surface for air either. Going to continue treatment for another week just to play it safe.

I had asked a question in another thread and I think it got lost in there somewheres as I didn't see any response....

Does anyone know if the use of the antibiotics will have any affect on unborn fry? 3 of the guppies were pregnant when I introduced them to the hospital tank. Two dropped their last batch xmas morning and 2 days later so they should be do any day now with their next batch.... another has been extremely fat and just gets fatter and has yet to drop her fry since the day I got her over a month ago (poor thing gonna have a tripple batch I think LMAO). Anyway, The one who had her fry xmas morning was looking rather chunky and now all of a sudden is back to being a skinny minny and there are no signs of fry anywhere. I suppose it's possible in such a small tank that she had them during the night and the other snatched them up as she dropped em sighhhhh...

 

[WILDER]

They don't recommend you use antibiotics when there pregnant, don't no if it would of harmed them.