Greetings and some questions from a total beginner

[Elfo]

Hi,

I have recently joined the forum as very new to tropical fish and looking for some advice, so this is a long post.

Tl;dr wanting to swap fish in the Swansea area.

I have foolishly bought a complete set up from someone who is downsizing from fish, apparently had been breeding them. I thought this might avert problems with acclimatising and conditioning and right now everything looks great.

I've been reading up on the individual fish needs however and realise that the community probably won't work.

The tank is a 65litre.

There's 3 tetras, probably lemon, don't think neon.

An opaline gourami

4 eel loach

And..... A clown loach we have called Ken.

We have a log, a wide leaved plant and gravel, 150w subby heater, airstone and filter. The filter is possibly too powerful for the space

I realise that the tetras will be happier in a big group but possibly won't be compatible with the gourami. The gourami probably wants a little group of mostly females And poor ken is going to want pals, and space to grow.

The eel loaches seem alright but I think prefer sand over gravel

Ken and the gourami do seem to interact well so that is something.

I found this all out yesterday and I am getting a 120l tank tomorrow to buy a bit of time. But thinking long term, it won't be realistic for us to get the right size tank to accommodate a shoal of clown loaches at full size.

I think Iam reluctantly looking to rehome the clown loach

I will happily take any advice on the tetras vs gourami question

How long could this group thrive in a 120 L,

and what should be the first priority for sorting out this mess?

Any help would be much appreciated

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

First thing is to reduce feeding to a couple of times a week and do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate 4-8 hours after feeding. This will help keep the ammonia levels down while the filters recover from being moved. In a months time you can feed once a day and do a 75% water change and gravel clean once a week.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

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What sort of filter do you have?
If you are unsure, take a picture and post it here. Same deal with the plants, gourami, loaches/ eels and tetras. Post pics and we will id them for you. I want a pic of the gourami to see if it's male or female. Females have nicer temperaments than males.

If you can post your tank dimensions (length x width x height) that will help.

Contact your water supply company (via website or telephone) and ask them what the general hardness (GH), carbonate hardness (KH) and pH are. Post the results (in numbers) here.

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How big is the gourami and loach?

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All bottom dwelling fish prefer sand over gravel. If you have gravel with rough edges then think about changing it. You can test the gravel by holding a few pieces and rubbing it against the palm of your hand. If it feels rough or sharp then get something smoother.

You can also use a plastic container with sand in and push the container into the gravel so there is a sand pit in the tank for the bottom dwellers.

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Depending on what species of tetra and the gourami, they could live happily ever after in a tank that is 3ft or more in length. So if the 120 litre tank is 3ft or more in length, it will probably be fine for the tetras and gouramis to live there for the rest of their lives.

The clown loach will be fine in a 3ft tank until it reaches 4-5 inches long and then should be moved into a bigger tank.

If you haven't bought the new tank yet and you have space, a 4ft long tank will hold more fish and the price won't be much more than a 3ft tank.

A 4 foot long x 14-18 inches wide x 18 inches high tank makes a nice display and has plenty of room for all the fish you have and more. Everyone on here will spit the dummy and say clown loaches need a 6ft tank, but if they are small they will be fine in a 4ft and only need the 6ft when bigger (6 inches long).

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The next time you are at the pet shop, make a list of fish and plants you like and post it here. We can compare the fish to the water chemistry (GH, KH & pH) and suggest good combinations.

 

[NickAu]

Hi
Regardless of what Colin says you have serious stocking issues.

The clown loach will be fine

NO Collin the clown loach will NOT be fine, They absolutely must be kept in groups of at least 6, They are a highly social fish and establish hierarchy with a female leading the group and YOU know it.

My Advice is to rehouse the loach as he wont be happy or healthy on his own.

4 eel loach

You mean Kuhli loach? These need to be in a group of six or more 10 is better 15 is best.

There's 3 tetras, probably lemon, don't think neon.

Tetras need to be in a group of 6 or more

 

[Elfo]

Thanks for all the replies.

Colin- thanks for the advice on ammonia also, I will take up your offer for IDing the fish etc so I'll get back to you with pictures etc.

Yes NickAu kuhli loach looks about right.

Is upping the stock i have (not the clown loach ) to the appropriate sized group going to be feasible in a 120 litre ? It's not 3ft, rather a deep 2ft8. I'd like to stick with the fish I've got, just find the clown loach a nice group to join

 

[Elfo]

I should add that i'm in the uk so my aquarium water needs heating. The running cost of a tank big enough to house a shoal of clown loach is the main restriction on going to a big enough tank.

 

[Colin_T]

NO Collin the clown loach will NOT be fine, They absolutely must be kept in groups of at least 6, They are a highly social fish and establish hierarchy with a female leading the group and YOU know it.

Taking things out of context Nick. My comment about the loach was it would be fine in a 3ft tank for a while (in reference to the tank size), and had nothing to do with numbers required to be in a group. However, since the tank is less than 3ft, then the OP should consider finding a bigger tank or rehoming the loach. If they plan on keeping the loach then they need a bigger tank and some friends for it.

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As for tank sizes, length x width is more important than height. Fish swim left to right and only go up to the surface to feed. Having a tall tank is not beneficial to the fish and the tall tanks will weigh more and cost more money due to having thicker glass.

Running costs for big tanks are not much different to small tanks. You can reduce heating costs by insulating the base, back and sides of an aquarium with polystyrene foam (the same stuff they put underneath aquariums).

Having 5mm thick coverglass on top of the tank will reduce evaporation and heat loss.

Having the tank in a room with other electrical appliances will help keep it warm. Most aquariums don't cost a lot to run. Lights use most of the power but fluorescent or LED lights are reasonably cheap to run, and most big televisions use a lot more power than an aquarium.

 

[NickAu]

What are your water parameters? Is your water soft or hard?

 

[Elfo]

Hi, thanks again for the information.

I'm definitely looking for ways to conserve heat loss so I'll take on some of these suggestions.

I have been using spring water which is "soft" but I don't know more than that right now

 

[Colin_T]

Why are you using spring water?

 

[Elfo]

We're off mains

 

[Colin_T]

what about rain or bore water, or a combination of those?

 

[Elfo]

we get spring water out the tap as we're off mains, we don't need a borehole. I could collect rainwater easily if it is preferable ?i would have thought that spring would be a good alternative to mains since there's no chlorine

 

[Colin_T]

When most people say spring water they are using bottled water from a shop. But if you are using spring water from a spring, that is normally fine, however you need to check it once a month for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and GH just to make sure it is still clean. Ground water can become contaminated and unless you test it regularly, you could be adding unwanted stuff to the tank.

 

[Elfo]

Ah, I see, thanks Colin_T.

I have just bought test strips to test for ammonia ( and some others) as per your advice, and cut down on feeds so I will monitor things.

After careful consideration I have decided to keep the clown loach and upgrade his life somewhat, i'm going to move to the 120L ASAP, stock the groups to the levels advised here and I'm going to look at a 5ft tank this afternoon (for sale 2nd hand at £20). I have plans for the tank which means I won't be able to use it straight away so the 120l will be a stop gap. I will set up the 5ft before I stock up and use it to quarantine the new fish.

The shop I bought the ammonia test from has a tank of clown loaches and they are a fraction of the size! My guy must be fairly old

I hate to be judgemental, but why do they do that ? An article on practical fishkeeping says clowns are one of the most popular but misunderstood fish. I realise I have been a bit naive with my approach, but I wouldn't knowingly want to see tiny clown loaches put into small tanks on their own. Anyway rant over !

Regarding the 5ft tank, I'm going to insulate it as suggested. I'm looking through low tech planted tanks. I'm a gardener by trade so that kind of tank is probably within my capabilities but also a challenge, and of course I understand the nitrogen cycle and I know how to sort out an overgrown pond!

One stumbling block seems to be that I can't find any kuhli loaches, though I have only tried a pet megashop and a small garden centre so far. Are they hard to find ?

I'm also trying to upload pictures but tge files are too big or something

 

[Colin_T]

If the pictures are too big to post, set the camera's resolution to the lowest setting (around 2MB if possible) and the images will be smaller and should fit. Otherwise you can reduce the image size with some image editing software. If that isn't possible you can put the images on an image hosting website and copy and paste the link here. We can click the link to view the images at the other site.

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When you go to see the 5ft tank, see if you can fill it up at the place it is being sold from.
Check the silicon (glue) that holds the glass together. It should be semi soft and squishy and not hard and brittle, dry or crumbly.
Check the silicon for air bubbles and white patches. The white areas are normally where the silicon is coming away from the glass.

Check the thickness of the glass.
Most tanks that are 18inches high should have 6mm thick glass.
If the tank is 24 inches high, it should have 10mm thick glass.

If the tank is only 12 inches high, it should also have 6mm thick glass due to the length of the tank (5ft).

If the tank is good, empty it and put some blankets or a foam mattress down and rest the tank on that during the trip home.