Glofish Facts

[DiscusKeeper403]

and we care why?

:stupid:






I think this is actually pretty cool. In-fact, I do care. These could even eliminate water testing! When they are in a fish tank, they could change different colors for different toxins in the water, we could monitor the Ph, Gh, Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, etc. etc. through the fishes body colors! Cool!

 

[Dorkhedeos]

hrmm, as long as they dont put these colors into bigger or predatory fish, i think we shouldnt have a problem with them surviving in the wild.

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

HATERS!!. all you guys are like my grandpa- stubborn and hate change

pimp almost every one of your posts here that i have seen have been flames. please thats not what these boards are for.

Oww hush, you are no different...



I wouldn't see a problem with them in larger fish... Why would they be

 

[eschaton]

Genes *can* jump from species to species. Generally though, this happens when a retrovirus infects one animal, accidentally copies some of the organism's DNA into itself, and then leaves it behind in the next organism.

I don't see why that would matter here though, as it's a gene found in nature already. And as others have said, at worst, it might make a few fry of another species glow - and then get eaten quickly, as bright colors are generally not something most fish select for.

 

[CarbonDreams]

I think a lot of people are missing the point of the glofish issue. Its not weather they could cause harm to any eco system or other animal. It is the simple fact that fish are living things, not toys to tinker with. When we start to modify fish, where is it going to end up? You can talk about the lack of bio diversity, or of the contamination of bread stock. (can you imagine how pissed off you would be if some of your fry ended up expressing this phenotype because 3 or 4 generations ago one of its parents was a glow fish?) But too many people think adding a gene is like turning on a light bulb. No, each action is a completely interdependent procedure. You add jellyfish DNA, who is to say that it doesn't change an immuno-response, or shortens the telomeres on the cell. Frankly there could be massive degradation of DNA and rNA that my not show up for years on end.

Secondly…What we have here is an evolutionary bottleneck. This is the big issue for ALL GM crops (at this point you might as well call these poor fish crops). These fish all came from one very small gene stock. They all are very similar. Look at other examples in the fish world about over bread/selected fish. The Dwarf Gourami, the betta, the angel. These fish because people have tried to select one trait over all others have basically led to the collapse of the entire captive breed. They are weaker than they were before, die sooner, are more fragile ect. The same is going to happen to these fish. It might not happen right away, but you cant argue that there is no historical precedent.

Thirdly…Lets face it…The majority of people who buy these fish are new to the hobby and don’t know much at all about fish keeping. (I am not talking about you Matt, and Im not attacking you in any way 8) ) They walk into the store and they see the massively bright unnaturally colored fish, and they want to buy them. It’s the same with the people who buy dyed fish, or neon pink castles. So most of the people who will be buying these fish will be keeping them in poor conditions, uncycled tanks and generally dooming them to a short or miserable existence.

I could go on, but this is getting a bit long winded…Matt if you want to go ahead and buy them, by all means…Im not you, nor can I tell you what to do, but you vote with your dollars. When you buy one you create more of a demand. And enabling the company to make more of the fish. Just my two euros in the matter.

 

[eschaton]

I think a lot of people are missing the point of the glofish issue. Its not weather they could cause harm to any eco system or other animal. It is the simple fact that fish are living things, not toys to tinker with. When we start to modify fish, where is it going to end up? You can talk about the lack of bio diversity, or of the contamination of bread stock. (can you imagine how pissed off you would be if some of your fry ended up expressing this phenotype because 3 or 4 generations ago one of its parents was a glow fish?) But too many people think adding a gene is like turning on a light bulb. No, each action is a completely interdependent procedure. You add jellyfish DNA, who is to say that it doesn't change an immuno-response, or shortens the telomeres on the cell. Frankly there could be massive degradation of DNA and rNA that my not show up for years on end.

Secondly…What we have here is an evolutionary bottleneck. This is the big issue for ALL GM crops (at this point you might as well call these poor fish crops). These fish all came from one very small gene stock. They all are very similar. Look at other examples in the fish world about over bread/selected fish. The Dwarf Gourami, the betta, the angel. These fish because people have tried to select one trait over all others have basically led to the collapse of the entire captive breed. They are weaker than they were before, die sooner, are more fragile ect. The same is going to happen to these fish. It might not happen right away, but you cant argue that there is no historical precedent.

Thirdly…Lets face it…The majority of people who buy these fish are new to the hobby and don’t know much at all about fish keeping. (I am not talking about you Matt, and Im not attacking you in any way 8) ) They walk into the store and they see the massively bright unnaturally colored fish, and they want to buy them. It’s the same with the people who buy dyed fish, or neon pink castles. So most of the people who will be buying these fish will be keeping them in poor conditions, uncycled tanks and generally dooming them to a short or miserable existence.

1. While a noble thought (and one I agree with at least somewhat) we've been genetically modifying animals through the slower process of selective breeding for centuries. IMHO fancy goldfish are far more monstrous than a simple glofish.

2. There is of course a bottleneck, but you can breed wild zebra danios into glofish and re-select the glowy offspring after a few generations. I think a few people have already been doing this actually in order to create long-finned glofish.

Anyway, there are plenty of ways I think transgenic organisms would be a big help in the hobby. Un-natural colors are one thing, but imagine if you could...

Make wild-caught species (Otocinclus, Botias, just about any saltwater fish) easy to breed in captivity
Engineer fish to be smaller than their wild breeds (goldfish that would actually work in a bowl perhaps?)
Create nitrate-fixing bacteria which could live in tanks and finish the nitrogen cycle - cutting down on water changes dramatically

Any of these three advances would help increase conservation of wild stock, lessen abuse of fish by newbies, and not take much away from the authenticity of the fish-keeping experience. I don't expect any but the dwarfing to be done any time soon, but the point is, there are ways transgenic organisms could be used in the hobby that would change things for the better.

 

[eschaton]

deleted: duplicate

 

[roseK]

well imo i just think fish are pretty in their natural colour. and i dont think any fish should have to suffer. and if that means putting a needle in a million fish to add dye, or putting a needle in too fish of genes so they can breed

 

[Scotch_Egg]

Part of the objection is that when humans start tinkering with the genes dramatically, sometimes the genes get out into the wild and start affecting things they were not supposed to. For example, I know at least one study pointed out that genes that have been put into our crops have gotten out. The plants were supposed to be completely infertile, unable to bear seeds, which they were, but they still flowered and honeybees took up the pollen from the flowers. The same modified genes could be detected in the bees honey. This was a gene that was assured to not get out.

What is to prevent the colored genes from spreading from these fish? They will eventually get to the wild -- enough people think that they are doing their fish a favor by releasing them when the people no longer want the fish. Further, what happens when a larger fish eats these modified danios? In most cases, the genes would probably be broken down, but what is they aren't and spread to that bigger fish? Can the scientists really be 100% sure that that won't happen? Not 99.95%, but 100%. If they are honest about it, no scientist should say they are 100% certain about anything like that.

Finally, my personal opinion is that there are already an immense variety of fish out there in a very wide spectrum of colors and shapes and sizes. Surely there are a few that appeal to you in their natural colorations so that it isn't necessary to go to genetically modified species? I don't have a huge problem with selective breeding so long as enough genetic diversity is kept. But, these completely artificial ones seem so very very fake -- when my personal goal in keeping an aquarium is to have a little slice of nature in my home. And these fake fish aren't nature, in my opinion.

I dont know much about glofish but this statement is very true. Like in brittian at the moment we have foot and mouth, this means we have to kill cows. and the only reason we have is virus is because for people messing around with genes.

 

[Rhykiru]

well look at this, a glowing green pig.

Linky

another Linky

Soooo.......

Green eggs and ham anyone?

 

[roseK]

what is the point of having a green pig that is just silly. poor things

 

[annka5]

Genetic modification of crops to my mind must have a far higher risk of "infection" e.g. in the case of bees mentioned earlier, as they are outside in fields, in a far less controlled environment, not held in a completely separate body of water. We're not "inventing" or "creating" these genes - they are already there in nature, just in jellyfish, not in danios. We're artificially introducing them into egg cells (I think!) Genetic research into animals is not aimed at devising Frankensteins, despite what a lot of popular opinion is; furthermore it holds the key to cure some horrendous diseases /ailments. I have a genetic illness; there are many people who have lost relatives to cancers (which many scientists now beleive you can have a genetic predisposition to, as with breast cancer), mental illnesses must be horrendous, and there is a potentially a genetic link with many of these. If sales of glo-fish fund research in this field, I don't really see why they are a Bad Thing. I'm not saying ALL genetic experimentation is acceptable or noble or whatever, I just don't think it is appropriate to say that ALL genetic experimentation is a bad thing, either. ... I don't think anyone wants a green pig, but it's part of increasing our knowledge.

 

[fry_lover]

what is the point of having a green pig that is just silly. poor things

maybe its for the vegetarians

 

[CarbonDreams]

I dont depute that genetic manipulation has a lot of promise to millions of people around the world. to that end, great! look at the bacteria that they have modified now that can grow insulin. Testing on an animal to save thousands from disease I have not the slightest qualms about. Its for the greatest good. But hobby fish keeping has nothing to do with promoting the work of real scientists. Your not helping humanity by keeping a GM fish. And when you buy one of them, you are most certainly not helping to fund genetic research...there is only one reason that glofish.com is out there. To make a buck.

It was previously said that these fish were first made to detect water chemistry changes. That's fine, I really don't have a problem with that. Its when people take the animals and then try to profit off them to the detriment of the fish that I take umbrage with.

 

[fry_lover]

I dont depute that genetic manipulation has a lot of promise to millions of people around the world. to that end, great! look at the bacteria that they have modified now that can grow insulin. Testing on an animal to save thousands from disease I have not the slightest qualms about. Its for the greatest good. But hobby fish keeping has nothing to do with promoting the work of real scientists. Your not helping humanity by keeping a GM fish. And when you buy one of them, you are most certainly not helping to fund genetic research...there is only one reason that glofish.com is out there. To make a buck.

It was previously said that these fish were first made to detect water chemistry changes. That's fine, I really don't have a problem with that. Its when people take the animals and then try to profit off them to the detriment of the fish that I take umbrage with.

well said