Frequent Molly Deaths, What Is Happening?

[starrynightxxi]

oh thank goodness -lol-

a twenty long is certainly more appropriate for mollies than a 5 gallon, and if you're using well water then you shouldn't need dechlorinator, though some folks still use it. However I think your problem is that your tank is cycling and you added too many fish at once. I'm not sure on the hardiness of mollies for cycling, or how the snails may be affecting the cycle, but if you are going to cycle with fish, you could start with one or two to get the ball rolling. You'll still want a test kit because you are going to have to do small water changes every day to keep the ammonia and nitrites under control. Getting a tank cycled with fish generally takes about four weeks.

Don't get clown loaches because they will get way too big for your tank and like to be in groups. The snails are fine for now, wait until you have the tank cycled before trying to deal with them.

As for distilled water, it isn't generally recommended because it doesn't contain any of the dissolved nutrients/vitamins etc. If you are going to use the cold water, let it sit and at least reach room temperature, if not adding a heater. Some folks add cold water directly to their tank, and in my experience it won't effect fish in coldwater tanks, but my tropical tank got sick when I did that to them. Besides your fish will be under enough stress with dealing with the cycle. There are ways to make water harder or softer without adding chemicals. Dropping a cuttle bone should harden up your water because the calcium will dissolve. There are are certain rocks you can add, too, that will do the same thing.

You can certainly try hardening the water, in which case you will also need a test kit that contains a hardness (KH, I think) test. However I think that the only thing you need to do from your list is buy a test kit and educate yourself about cycling tanks. That's the best cure for fish dying in new aquariums.

[edit] one last note, we have a lot of folks here who use metric so 20L will always be seen as 20 liters. better to say 20G long or some such thing. Though some folks will still ask if you mean UK gallons (UKG) or US gallons (USG) it's confusing at times, but you'll get the hang of it

 

[jakeyman_i_am]

Thanks starrynightxxi! I had planned upon leaving the tank sit for a few weeks before adding anything living next time, and it looks like that is right. I do wonder however, what is the ideal hardness, nytrate, and PH for Mollies? I know the PH should be in the ballpark of the 7.5 range, and that Mollies can deal with harder water, but that is the extent of my knowlage.

I do heat the tank, and keep it at a very steady 75 F. I spent way more on the heater than I did the tank (even though the tank is really high quality and new..) so it keeps things warm without much flex in temp. I heard that variation can really put stress on a breeding tank.

What are the rules with live plants? I guess my biggest question is what do they add to the water? I would imagine that they would raise nytrates in the water if the are allowed to decompose. I ask this because when I got the plants, one of them was a hairy little guy that is known as the fastest growing fresh water plant. That thing SHED. I am still pulling little rotting chunks of it out of the filter every time I change it. In hindsite this could have had something to do with all of this.

 

[starrynightxxi]

this link will send you to one of the profiles pages (under fish index on the main page of the forum) Livebearer Profiles. It has the profiles for three different types of mollies.

As for plants, yeah if allowed to decompose they can cause a problem with your water quality, and i think also leech oxygen out of the water. In a healthy tank small amounts of decomposition shouldn't disturb your water quality too much, but in a new tank they can certainly make things go a little haywire. Healthy plants do like to eat the stuff that's bad for fish, and can add some oxygen, but are by no means a cure for cycling or filtering or water changes, they will give you a little more forgiveness, however, if for some reason you are a little slack on your water changes (sick, out of town etc.)

For information on caring for your plants, check out the Aquatic Plants board. The only live plant i keep is Java Moss which is easy to keep (and is probably the "hairy" plant you had that shed), but some plants require high light, aquarium-safe fertilizers, and CO2. Also, SOME fish stores will sell you plants which actually aren't aquatic at all. These harder to care for or non-aquatic plants will die in time if their needs aren't met, so it's important to know what you've got.


For heat, adding cold water to the tank won't actually cause the temperature to drop much, but my brilliant fish like to swim in the new water when I add it, and when I added the cold water (this was mid-summer, so cold being about 12 degrees difference from tank temp), one of the tetras came up with ich the next day . My goldfish and minnows have never had that problem, even now in winter that their tank is heated and the tap is COLD, and there are others who never have that problem even in their tropical tanks.

Another thing you can do is heat water in a tea pot and will add that to cold water until it reaches the desired temperature.

 

[jakeyman_i_am]

Ok, I tested the water -

PH = 8.2 High..
Amonia = 0-.25 PPM (It was right in between...)
Nitrite = 0 PPM (NO misread there, that baby was super light blue)
Nitrate = 20 PPM

Any suggestions about that PH (try to think of home remidies, the test kit was expensive!)

Thanks!

 

[jakeyman_i_am]

Alright everyone, I have a picture of my tank. It looks really messy, and it is, but thats because some water ran down the front today when I was testing it.

The bubble tube (bubble wall) is behind the plants/rocks.

Yes, yes I am working on getting more stuff in there!

 

[starrynightxxi]

yow, your PH is high. is that what it is comin out of the tap? There are ways to drop it but I'm not sure what they are you'll have to find out from someone else. I know that bogwood/driftwood will often make water more acidic but that's the only one I know. Still as nmonks said there has been some luck keeping mollies in FW with hard water and high PH rather than marine salt so if you're willing to try to find that happy medium, try looking into ways to make the water nice and hard for them as well (cuttlebone, or anything that will leech calcium into the water)

your tank won't stay cycled if you leave it empty. It needs something to create ammonia so the bacteria can change it to nitrite, then nitrate. Now that you have the tank up, add 2-3 mollies to continue the cycle (the snails will help keep it cycled but i don't know how many you have or just how they will affect it). While cycling, feed your fish only a little, maybe a flake each, and test your water every other day. if the ammonia or nitrites are high (basically anything over 0) do a water change. A cycled tank should have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and up to 20 nitrates.

Cycling Resource Center this link should help you, it will explain things in more detail than i have.

It does sound like you're close to being completely cycled though. How long have you not had any fish in that tank? It's possible that the cycle killed the mollies but has begun to work itself out, being maintained by the waste the snails are producing, but it may also be that it was simply a bad batch of fish (which happens). I still highly doubt it was the snails. i think that if you added a fish or two and did some small water changes you would be cycled sooner than the usual four weeks. just make sure you keep testing.

Best bet for getting healthy fish is to go through a respectable breeder (such as on aquabid.com or someone on this forum looking to get rid of some fry) or a good pet store. Barring either of these, look for fish that are bright and active, either eating or hunting for food and schooling properly. if you see any clamped fins, sluggish, dead, or obviously sick fish (ie: showing signs or illnesses like ich, anchor worms, finrot, dropsy, etc) don't purchase fish from that store that day. Most petshops use the same water/heavy-duty filter throughout their tanks so disease will spread throughout.

 

[jakeyman_i_am]

My master test kit said that the max that the PH should be for Mollies is 7.8 - and said that the easiest way to drop the PH is to use PHDrop (which the same company also makes..) I know most people frown upon using any chemicals in the tank, so I don't know anyone will agree with this one. When I get home today I will test the PH of just straight tap (forgot to..) and see what is going on there.

Also, I do have two Mollies in my tank. A male and a female. They seem healthy to me. They almost jump out of the tank when I drop flakes in, and they stick together most of the time. But, both were jet black (not a spec of white anywhere) when I got them, and now the male's underside is starting to get some white to it. Would this be normal?

Anyway, I will look into the whole PH dropping situation. I don't think it will be that hard to do. I will post my results here so you all know in the future what to do. Keep me updated if you get any new ideas.

Thank you all for your time!!! ::

 

[nmonks]

Mollies can take a pH above 7.8, at least in brackish/salt water. They're routinely kept in marine tanks, usually to mature the filters but sometimes simply as useful algae eaters for mini-reef tanks and the like.

I can't say this strongly enough: add salt and all your problems will be over. Marine aquarium salt mix stablises the pH and hardness perfectly. You will get a pH of about 7.5 to 8.2 depending on how much you use, and the pH will stick there assuming you don't do something silly. If it was me, and I was keeping just a tank of mollies, I'd be adding 3-5 grammes of marine salt mix per litre of water. That won't cost very much, and will make the water nice and brackish.

People do keep mollies in freshwater. But half the time they end up faffing about with pH buffers, anti-fungus, and all the rest of it. Do yourself (and your fish) a favour and pick up some marine salt mix. Then sit back and enjoy your fish.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[Nick Bramley]

a salt is a must when keeping mollies

 

[jakeyman_i_am]

People do keep mollies in freshwater. But half the time they end up faffing about with pH buffers, anti-fungus, and all the rest of it. Do yourself (and your fish) a favour and pick up some marine salt mix. Then sit back and enjoy your fish.

Yep I tried. Everyone until this forum was saying that salt was a nice aditive, not really a strong point of keeping them alive.

I tested the PH of the tap water, it is at 7.4.

So, I will swing over and hit up Animart today to grab some marine salt. I will keep the thread posted as to what happens after this. Thank you all for your help and time.

 

[poecilia]

I think what happened is ... mollies are very hard to keep. they need salt in their water!

 

[nmonks]

Yep I tried. Everyone until this forum was saying that salt was a nice aditive, not really a strong point of keeping them alive.

I know... it's infuriating. It's really like this. Yes, you can keep mollies without salt. But for every person I meet or read postings from who has done this, I've met another who has had nothing but trouble. Because mollies are hybrids, you can't predict whether they'll need salt or not by looking. Hence, for me, the only safe advice is to add the salt. At worst, it does not harm, at best, it makes your mollies healthy. Bit of a no-brainer, really. And mollies are such nice fish, it's a shame they're so often unhealthy or die prematurely.

Neale

 

[paulthegreat]

high snail counts can mean overfeeding!! believe me! I was the King of overfeeding and had mini ram snails by the hundreds. I still have a few but now they are not a big issue. A few are no prob and help to keep the tank free from excess food and even eat some algea. I almost wish I could have a few in the big tank but the loaches say LUNCHTIME!!!

By the way Monk what is that in your avitar??

 

[jakeyman_i_am]

high snail counts can mean overfeeding!! believe me!

I stopped all of that. The two Mollies are now being fed one sinking pellet a day. They both suck on it for about 5 minutes before it is gone, works perfect. They seem happy now that the salt has been added!

It dropped the PH to 7.9, so far.

 

[Annastasia]

I find sinking pellets a bit hard to feed, because the fish don't always eat them, since they are on the bottom, and then it goes to the snails. You could try alternating in some flakes, if you want. My fish tend to finish those thoroughly, and there isn't as much left for the snails.