Frequent fish deaths - advice needed!

[djkillab]

Hello everyone

New here so please be gentle!

I've generally been getting 1 death every few months in my tank and not sure why, so hoping some people with more knowledge than me can help! They've always been 1 at a time and generally quite random. Species included have been Congo frogs, mollies, beta, loach and today a "moppy".
Most have been purchased from the same local aquatic centre inside a garden centre.

Current set up:
70l tank
Fluval U2 filter
Heater set at 25°c
Small air stone
Have the light on for 12 hours a day

Water parameters just tested:
Ammonia 0
Hardness 150
Nitrate 10
Nitrite 0
Chlorine 0
Alkalinity 120
PH 7.2

Current stock:
4 guppies
1 molly
1 loach
1 Congo frog

Food:
Small pinch of dry tropical flakes every evening
I feed the frog separately every 3 days with some frozen bloodworm

Is there anything standing out that could be an issue?

Thanks!

 

[Jinx_]

Bettas are soft water fish, so are loaches. I believe frogs also prefer softer acidic water like the other two species.

Mollies are extremly hard water fish needing 250+ppm hardness. They also need a 30+ gallon tank, they get pretty big.

For guppies, I personally say 200+ppm hardness. I keep my guys in 255ppm hardness, and they're thriving.

Do you use a filter? Heater? Temperature?

Usually store bought fish have already problems in them unfortunately. The fact that you have deaths every couple to few months, points out probelm with the animals themselves rather than something wrong with your water.

Can you give us species name that have died so far? Soft water fish are not evolved to thrive and live in harder water, they are not made to withstand the high amount of minerals in the water as they cannot filter excess minerals out.

Hard water fish instead need a high amount of these minerals, so they don't live to their fullest in soft water.

While you do that, you can also perform a full tank clean (no harsh chemicals) and do a 75% wtaer change to dilute out any microorganisms.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

When you say loach, this is not a lot of help as they come in all sizes and shapes. I keep two species of loach. One are clowns which grow well over 1 foot (over 31 cm). The other, sidthimunki (aka dwarf loach), grows to 2.5 inches (6+ cm). Both are called loach and the difference matters.

Also, most loaches need to be kept in groups. I am a bit on the low side as I have just 10 clowns which are in a 150 gal. (567 l), but there are at least 15 sids. The sids live in a 25 gal. (94 l) which is a bit on the small side for them as the length is 24 inches (61 cm) and they would prefer closer to 30 (76 cm) at least.

 

[Jinx_]

Yeah, totally forgor there are so many pool noodles.

 

[Colin_T]

What's a moppy?

You don't need the lights on for 12 hours a day if you have artificial plants. You can have the light on in the afternoon till before you go to bed so you can see the fish but without live plants you don't need light except to see the fish.

What symptoms (if any) do the fish have before they die or after they are dead?
Do you have any pictures of the dead fish?
Can you post clear pictures of the remaining fish?

How often do you do water changes and how much do you change?
Do you gravel clean the substrate when you do a water change?
Do you dechlorinate the new water before adding it to the aquarium?

What sort of filter is on the tank?
How often and how do you clean the filter?

Have you got buckets, hoses and sponges specifically for the fish tank?

Did you do a water change or have visitors on the day before the fish died?

Do you have anything on your hands (perfume, moisturiser cream, oil, grease, hand sanitiser residue, etc) that could wash off into the aquarium water?

Do they eat normally the day before they die?
What does their poop look like?

 

[Jinx_]

What's a moppy?

You don't need the lights on for 12 hours a day if you have artificial plants. You can have the light on in the afternoon till before you go to bed so you can see the fish but without live plants you don't need light except to see the fish.

What symptoms (if any) do the fish have before they die or after they are dead?
Do you have any pictures of the dead fish?
Can you post clear pictures of the remaining fish?

How often do you do water changes and how much do you change?
Do you gravel clean the substrate when you do a water change?
Do you dechlorinate the new water before adding it to the aquarium?

What sort of filter is on the tank?
How often and how do you clean the filter?

Have you got buckets, hoses and sponges specifically for the fish tank?

Did you do a water change or have visitors on the day before the fish died?

Do you have anything on your hands (perfume, moisturiser cream, oil, grease, hand sanitiser residue, etc) that could wash off into the aquarium water?

Do they eat normally the day before they die?
What does their poop look like?

Moppy is cross between molly and guppy. Quite an adorable name for their hybrids.

 

[Essjay]

I've only heard them called muppies and gollies

 

[djkillab]

Thanks for your replies everyone.

The water Hardness could well be the issue, as the deaths have mainly been the ones described above liking soft water.

Apologies, i believe it is a dwarf Chain Loach.

Most seemed to go off their food and then get gradually more lethargic over a couple of days then die.

One of the mollies did seem to poo a lot for a couple of days before death, so from doing some research that sounded like an illness.

I do partial (about 20%) water changes most weeks. I follow the guidance from Fluval with regards to cleaning/replacing the filter pads etc. I use a vacuum for the gravel.

And the bucket I use for water changes etc is only used for this. Also always use tap safe and Fluval bacteria enhancer.

Thanks

 

[Jinx_]

Seems like the water hardness is only a part of the problem. It wouldn't make fish go off their food (unless I'm mistaken) and poop a lot.

I've had my fish in the past poop a lot before it turned white and stringy, then followed by thin looking fish and then deaths.

For water changes, you wanna do 50% weekly. There is no problems taking more since you with them take out any free floating microorganisms from the water column.

You absolutely do not want to be listening to companies telling you to use some bacteria 'enhancers' or change out filter media monthly.

It's a sham.

Beneficial bacteria are found in the air, they make their way to the aquarium and "feed" on ammonia where they then convert it to nitrite. Then nitrite "eating" bacteria start to grow and convert nitrite to nitrates. They then multiply in thousands over time. Removing the filter media, you remove the culture causing a crash in the balance. This causes ammonia and nitrites to spike as the bacteria start their cycle again. At least you don't remove all of them, but yet most of the majority of the bacteria. You see, they stick themselves to the growing biofilm over surfaces in the tank, but they don't multiply in such numbers as on the filter pads.

Fish keepers only clean the filter media in the tank water instead of throwing the cultures out. If you ever feel like you absolutely must replace the pads, put the new ones in/on the filter then out the old ones by the filter so the bacteria migrate onto the new pads. Then wait a month and throw away the old pad, it still with throw away many of the bacteria but you will have enough of them in the tank.

So, I want you to keep testing your tanks water on a daily basis and doing water changes needes.

You will only need to give us results for:

Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate

Daily.

And if you could give us:

pH
Hardness (total and degrees, not sure if these are the same or not lol)

Daily as well. Just to make sure there aren't any fluctuations

I would advise to avoid any strip tests, they aren't reliable. Instead if you're able to get the API Master Test Kit, it's in a liquid form and is completely more reliable than strips. It's not cheap or expensive.

 

[Colin_T]

If the fish poop is coloured (not white) then fish can poop a lot if they eat a lot and it's perfectly normal. However, if the poop is white, it's an issue.

What to do if your fish has Stringy White Poop.

Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons. 1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be...

www.fishforums.net

I doubt the general hardness (GH) is causing this. You have soft and hard water fishes that have died so if the GH was too high it shouldn't cause the molly or guppy to die. If the GH is low, it shouldn't cause Bettas or loaches to die. It is 150ppm and most of the fish you have will be fine with this (mollies need it higher).

 

[Lcc86]

Just to add if you do end up needing to treat the tank for something like worms or other intestinal parasites you are likely going to have to move the frog out as a lot of medications for fish are toxic to frogs. I used to keep fish and frogs together and it worked well in a peaceful tank until I needed to treat the tank then it became a nightmare of having to set up a separate one to house the frogs.

Re the frogs, if they are juvenile they will need feeding more than every 3 days. Is your remaining frog quite skinny? If so I would increase feeding to see if that helps.

 

[djkillab]

If the fish poop is coloured (not white) then fish can poop a lot if they eat a lot and it's perfectly normal. However, if the poop is white, it's an issue.

What to do if your fish has Stringy White Poop.

Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons. 1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be...

www.fishforums.net

I doubt the general hardness (GH) is causing this. You have soft and hard water fishes that have died so if the GH was too high it shouldn't cause the molly or guppy to die. If the GH is low, it shouldn't cause Bettas or loaches to die. It is 150ppm and most of the fish you have will be fine with this (mollies need it higher).

The molly that died who I mentioned pooped a lot before it died, did indeed have white stringy poo, so I think it was ill. Maybe worms? It's the only one which died and these problems

 

[djkillab]

Just to add if you do end up needing to treat the tank for something like worms or other intestinal parasites you are likely going to have to move the frog out as a lot of medications for fish are toxic to frogs. I used to keep fish and frogs together and it worked well in a peaceful tank until I needed to treat the tank then it became a nightmare of having to set up a separate one to house the frogs.

Re the frogs, if they are juvenile they will need feeding more than every 3 days. Is your remaining frog quite skinny? If so I would increase feeding to see if that helps.

As I just put on a different reply, 1 of the mollies had stringy white poo for a couple of days before it died, so thinking this could be worms. This was the only one who appeared to die like this.
If I treat the tank, how long do I need to remove the frog for?
I think he probably is a bit skinny so I will switch to feeding every 2 days. The info online has been quite conflicting with regards to feeding frequency

 

[Lcc86]

As I just put on a different reply, 1 of the mollies had stringy white poo for a couple of days before it died, so thinking this could be worms. This was the only one who appeared to die like this.
If I treat the tank, how long do I need to remove the frog for?
I think he probably is a bit skinny so I will switch to feeding every 2 days. The info online has been quite conflicting with regards to feeding frequency

So when I had to do this I actually contacted the manufacturer of the medication for advice, for the meds I used they recommended keeping the frogs out for a month, I think I stretched it to 6 weeks to be sure I'd done enough water changes to get rid of any remnants.

If your frog is a juvenile you could go up to feeding daily with a fast day once a week but see how he/she goes with every other day first, you can always increase if needed. Hopefully once you've got on top of the issues you can get him/her another friend as they do like company (I have a soft spot for them in case you can't tell haha).

 

[djkillab]

Seems like the water hardness is only a part of the problem. It wouldn't make fish go off their food (unless I'm mistaken) and poop a lot.

I've had my fish in the past poop a lot before it turned white and stringy, then followed by thin looking fish and then deaths.

For water changes, you wanna do 50% weekly. There is no problems taking more since you with them take out any free floating microorganisms from the water column.

You absolutely do not want to be listening to companies telling you to use some bacteria 'enhancers' or change out filter media monthly.

It's a sham.

Beneficial bacteria are found in the air, they make their way to the aquarium and "feed" on ammonia where they then convert it to nitrite. Then nitrite "eating" bacteria start to grow and convert nitrite to nitrates. They then multiply in thousands over time. Removing the filter media, you remove the culture causing a crash in the balance. This causes ammonia and nitrites to spike as the bacteria start their cycle again. At least you don't remove all of them, but yet most of the majority of the bacteria. You see, they stick themselves to the growing biofilm over surfaces in the tank, but they don't multiply in such numbers as on the filter pads.

Fish keepers only clean the filter media in the tank water instead of throwing the cultures out. If you ever feel like you absolutely must replace the pads, put the new ones in/on the filter then out the old ones by the filter so the bacteria migrate onto the new pads. Then wait a month and throw away the old pad, it still with throw away many of the bacteria but you will have enough of them in the tank.

So, I want you to keep testing your tanks water on a daily basis and doing water changes needes.

You will only need to give us results for:

Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate

Daily.

And if you could give us:

pH
Hardness (total and degrees, not sure if these are the same or not lol)

Daily as well. Just to make sure there aren't any fluctuations

I would advise to avoid any strip tests, they aren't reliable. Instead if you're able to get the API Master Test Kit, it's in a liquid form and is completely more reliable than strips. It's not cheap or expensive.

Thanks.

So in the filter there are 2 foam sponges, 2 carbon pads and bio media. I wash the sponges in tank water once a month and replace the carbon pads monthly, but 1 at a time. The bio media (the white rock things) I have only replaced 50% of after 6 months.

I do use the test strips so I will definitely look to get that API master test kit