FREE to good homes Mbuna (Ice blue-Kenyi) South FL

[Synirr]

Thank you, pica_nuttalli. Very well said. Two of the things you mentioned absolutely madden me... the whole dog breeds being hybrid thing and the mention of races. People need to start understanding the difference. I mean, I'm a biology student and all so maybe I'm a little less tolerant of that than some, but to me it's like those people who say "If evolution is true why are there still monkeys?" It's just... bleh *is screaming from frustration on the inside*

 

[Misskiwi67]

But if these fish will interbreed in the wild, are they truly seperate species?? A species is something humans have used to make nature organized. Come on... organize nature??? Thats rediculous.

I'm a fish person, but my true love is reptiles. I get very nervous when people cross species of snakes. We're not talking the difference between 2 stipes and 5 stripes here, species seperated by bay, we're talking ball pythons and blood pythons, completely different continents...

However, the offspring produced by crossing reptiles are often better temperamented, more colorful, and hardier. I HAVE NO PROBLEM, and CAN SEE NO PROBLEM when the offspring are represented for what they are... hybrids.

Fry lady represented her baby fish for exactly what they were. #### happens, you want her to cull the whole lot of them??? Be serious people. The fish have a right to live now that they exist. Shall we go "cull" every hybrid wolf dog Sure, not every owner is capable of being a responsible hybrid owner, but that doesn't mean we should kill the pups or force them to live in crowded conditions when good homes CAN be found.

I think you all should get off your soap boxes and commend Fry lady for attempting to be responsible. Some people take their HOBBIES far too seriously... don't ruin it for the rest of us.

 

[Misskiwi67]

Um... irresponsible post.... I told you to get off your soapboxes, so I'll delete my harsh words and apologize instead...

Have a good night everyone!!! )

 

[pica_nuttalli]

once is an accident
twice is a coincidence
three times is a pattern

no, you don't have to cull every hybrid. yes, its a good thing that she wants to provide for them now that they are here. but its not responsible fishkeeping to continually produce unpredictable hybrids that you may or may not be able to rehome!!

the definition of a species is a group sharing strongly similar characteristics that interbreeds sucessfully--meaning they produce consistently fertile offspring. two fish that are typically regarded as different species, then suddenly start hybridizing in the wild and produce viable fy, are in fact just sub-species (meaning two groups sharing mildly simliar characteristics that are capable of interbreeding sucessfully but typically don't). this is a case where science just got a little too clever. but if the wild hybrids cannot produce additional fry, then its really just a magnified and more tragic case of forced hybridization as seen in the home aquarium.

I'm a fish person, but my true love is reptiles. I get very nervous when people cross species of snakes. We're not talking the difference between 2 stipes and 5 stripes here, species seperated by bay, we're talking ball pythons and blood pythons, completely different continents...

its not too far off to compare different bays to being at least on opposing sides of the same continent. different rivers is an excellent analogy to different continents. and sometimes you do see attempts at hybridizing fish from different continents. water conditions are essentially uniform in small volumes such as aquariums, but there can be immense differences in conditions (temperature, oxygenation, vegetation, microfoods) in lakes that are miles and miles long. even the water chemistry can be vastly different, especially in rivers which are strongly dependent on the surrounding landscape for conditions.

However, the offspring produced by crossing reptiles are often better temperamented, more colorful, and hardier. I HAVE NO PROBLEM, and CAN SEE NO PROBLEM when the offspring are represented for what they are... hybrids

considering that Rift Lake species with pleasent temperaments are few and far between, odds are not in the favor of improved attitudes. the big problem with frequent hybridizing is really that every hybridization attempt is a lost chance to reduce the capture of wild pure-strain cichlids. there are many species in the Rift Lakes that are facing severe population depletion due to the aquarium trade. there is also a lack of reputable breeders who can be relied upon for pure-strain cichlids, feeding the trade in wild-caught fish.

for the most part, hybrids should be accidents and coincidences. there are a few exceptions of course, but for the most part hybridization shouldn't be a pattern.

 

[Misskiwi67]

If you want to reduce the number of wild-caught imports... then remove the demand for them.

Either enjoy what you've got, which is what the herpers are doing with reptiles from countries that no longer export, or buy from reputable sources of captive bred unhybridized stock.

The average joe schmoe at the petstore could care less if his striped kingsnake is actually 25% cornsnake or not, and the same goes for the hybridized fish. Its up to the people who want to maintain pure stocks to do so, and to buy from reputable sources.

Selling healthy locally raised hybrids is a great way to reduce demand for imports... and those of us who want pure strains (I used to keep betta imbellis) should maintain them and/or advertise them for what they are...

 

[Fry Lady]

Well said there Misskiwi and for the record my inter racial comment was tossed in as a comparison.

Two of my very best Friends are and my very own God Child is from that marriage, I for one SEE NO differnce in race, color or creed intermingling, reproducing or co existing.

So really, some of you guys come off here as Professors and fish keepers with degrees in Ichthyology for god's sake.

I've commented on many varieties of fish that are considered hybrid such as I will say it again EUREKA RED according to Dr. Herbert Axelrod. P.S. guys, temperment of these Reds aren't so nice yet an OB Peacock tends to be the nice little shy fish my MY experience having both.

If you all want to sit there and call these babies hybrids, go ahead. It's not going to change what they are by any means. They are fish, healthy and vibrantly colored babies and temperment? Oh it's just fine they are already doing the shakey shake with each other an chasing each other as you see with Kenyi or ANY cichlid for that matter.

I have some beautiful hybrids, then and they are for my eyes only to enjoy. Can't wait til they reach adult size to see if they take on some Ice Blue male coloring.
P.S. Not one time did I move or separate the Mommy, she held and spit within the population amongst ALL of the fish and they could have been more but as in nature it's survival of the fittest. These babies grew up witin the tank of adults, pretty cool to see that large cichlids of like don't even bother with them.

The surprise will be mine to know. Gotta love nature and God's gift to us filling my world with all kinds of living creatures even a simple fish.

 

[freddyk]

there are many species in the Rift Lakes that are facing severe population depletion due to the aquarium trade

The aquarium trade actually has very little to do with the threat over the Rift lakes, close enough to say none at all. The lakes are in trouble because of local human civilization - agriculture, fishing, pollution, etc. - these are the things destroying them.

The introduction of the Nile Perch (by human hands) has all but wiped out Lake Victoria. Many of the cichlids that have perished from those waters can only be found in the aquarium trade, thanks to aquarists with the sensibility and thought to keep strains pure.

Each one of these Rift lakes is landlocked and unique. Versatile fish like Oscars seem to be able to survive anywhere in the world, but these Africans have only one unique home and they won't survive anywhere else. Once these fish are gone, they're gone for good.

If breeders can't get their hands on wild caught specimens anymore, they would be forced to deal with those already circulating the aquarium trade. Over the years uncaring fish keepers, who truly like to fool themselves into thinking ignorance is bliss, would distribute their hybrids and people would buy them. These equally ignorant people would inadvertently or consciously create their own hybrids, possibly using existing hybrids to further destroy the lines. On top of this there would be a steady decline in quality even with the natural species, thanks to equally ignorant amateur or greedy breeders.

Eventually we would have nothing at all in the wild, and nothing but garbage in the trade - ugly, unpredictable, and unnatural.

An ignorant person willing to live their whole lives in bliss will never know the damage they've caused.

 

[Fry Lady]

An ignorant person willing to live their whole lives in bliss will never know the damage they've caused.

[snapback]918063[/snapback]​

Well I guess I must really be ignorant BY:

Stating upfront what they were EXACTLY
Offering them for FREE to people who KNEW what they were so they WOULDN'T end up in the circulation.

I must be quadruply ignorant to run my car I race with open and illegal exhaust on the street everyday, Girl insane over here, don't let the Naturalists know

But at the end of the day, I come home to a very well bred specimen of a Shetland Sheepdog<--a dog most human population don't know how to breed correctly for type.......... and 3 tanks of very happy fish who are glad to see me and likewise along with hybrids like my Eureka Red, Gold Peacock<--not found in the wild didya know that?

 

[freddyk]

Stating upfront what they were EXACTLY
Offering them for FREE to people who KNEW what they were so they WOULDN'T end up in the circulation

Really, you sound pretty sure that any of these unknown members are aware, yet I must say in my own experience I'd guess it's exactly the opposite. They'll have the same attitude as you and distribute their hybrids among their friends, and so on. Don't you get how these things work?

Anyway, it's obvious you don't understand or care, so enjoy spreading your hybrids, polluting the environment more then necessary, and risking yours and other people lives through dangerous and illegal street racing. Now that I understand the mindset involved I see how I waste my time. This thread may as well be locked, any interested people can pm the owner, IMO.

 

[Fry Lady]

If you re read through the post Freddy........you'll see that I stated how they'd stay with me if they can't be placed. Infact you know me to be so irresponsible ASSuming that I street race too, the babies would not be given in pairs, infact they won't go to people until their sexes are indentifiable.

Thank you for assuming I street race but you are wrong. I race exclusively at the drag strip ALL the time. My car is my more expensive hobby aside from fish.

It's evident you ASSume alot of things that you simply don't know.

 

[freddyk]

I must be quadruply ignorant to run my car I race with open and illegal exhaust on the street everyday, Girl insane over here, don't let the Naturalists know

You said it, not I. Apologies if there was a miscommunication.

 

[Fry Lady]

Apology accepted. Infact, I am SO against street racing you have no idea. Put it this way, I laugh at cars that try to challenge me on the street, they are no competitition for what my car even ran stock, nevermind what's done to it now.

I organize year after year rentals at tracks so all the smack talking can get done and the call outs and grudge races can happen in a safe controlled place. None of my Friends street race it's not worth the risk of yours or someone elses safety nor the loss of your license and CAR............alot of our cars have thousands into them from forged bottom end motors with $2200 racing rear ends to expensive exhaust work and cylinder heads.

THIS is what I do best and love every single second of it.

http/www.pbfbody.com/forum/attachment.ph...=1&d=1121992537

I am probably one of the most responsible pet owners you will find........wanna discuss Pet foods? Or holistic medicine? All the more reason as much as I'd love to breed my dog to a good ***** because his Temperment, look and pesonality are awesome, there are too many unwanted dogs in this world now.

I have a heart, that's why my baby fish are with me and were not destroyed. Man kind does alot of worse things to living creatures then a few fish that were blessed to me with the call of nature.

 

[Angel Lady]

I will still take them if you will send them to me by UPS or Fed X one. I will give them a great home,

 

[TigerMan]

i want 1 so pm me ok?

 

[afireinside]

TigerMan: Sorry to break your bubble, but this was on the first post:

If you are local in South Florida- West Palm, Ft. Lauderdale I will be giving a few of them away to GOOD homes and keeping the rest.