FREE to good homes Mbuna (Ice blue-Kenyi) South FL

[Ben]

At the end of the day fish hybridize.

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No they don't, people(HUMAN BEINGS/HOMO SAPIENS) force them to, or like convicts, they do it because its natural instinct to breed with any fish they can.

DD

 

[freddyk]

No they don't, people(HUMAN BEINGS/HOMO SAPIENS) force them to, or like convicts, they do it because its natural instinct to breed with any fish they can.

Bingo. In the wild they are not crammed in with other species, so there isn't the worry. Any hybridizing that does happen is most likely to disappear, and any that do make it have proven themselves against nature - if they've surivived and multiplied with each other to the point where they've become a new species, then they've earned it.

It will be nice if you can find a responsible home for your fish, but I can only hope that people know to keep it in their tanks and not to distribute them to fish stores, or sell them.

most stunning varieties of Africans such as the Eureka Red, German Red and the snow white Albino Socolofi ARE NOT found in the wild

These are NOT hybrids, they are carefully LINE BRED by people with the intention of preserving quality while creating bolder or different colored fish. The number of fish culled (destroyed) to create these varients while maintaining quality might disturb you.

Anyway, I don't know why I bother, few people care about the quality of fish in the hobby as long as their tanks look pretty. I've witnessed the decline myself over the years, but human ignorance prevails as usual.

 

[Fry Lady]

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[BBB]

At the end of the day fish hybridize.

[snapback]912575[/snapback]​

No they don't, people(HUMAN BEINGS/HOMO SAPIENS) force them to, or like convicts, they do it because its natural instinct to breed with any fish they can.

DD

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I keep all of my fish in pairs and if they choose to mate with other species then that is not being forced into anything.

Therefore they do.

 

[Fry Lady]

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[/quote]

I keep all of my fish in pairs and if they choose to mate with other species then that is not being forced into anything.

Therefore they do.

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[/quote]

When I originally purchased my Ice Blue, the hopes were for a male, but it's a Female. My Peacocks are all Males of different colors, and there is one female in there. I'd truly love nothing more than the Peacocks (Stuargrantis) to pair off.........my Blue one is to die for he's so electric blue with orange/red in his fins.

Other than that, Mbuna cross all the time, that's why it's so hard to identify certain types in stores. Having my Ice Blue and Kenyi cross has produced some very pretty fish, I hope as some mature they take on the color of the Ice blues......maybe, maybe not but it sure would be nice to see some Red/Orange fins along with the beautiful vertical bars. It's not like a Mbuna cross with a Hap! They are the same genus, only different color varieties.

As the Aulnocara, they are ALWAYS mis labeled in stores.

 

[Ben]

I keep all of my fish in pairs and if they choose to mate with other species then that is not being forced into anything.

Therefore they do.

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proving my point... thanks

 

[freddyk]

I keep all of my fish in pairs and if they choose to mate with other species then that is not being forced into anything.

Therefore they do.

I think you've completely missed the boat on this. You are sticking fish that can crossbreed into a confined space (which can be considered irreponsible stocking) so you are forcing them into it. They all exist in the same body of water in the wild, but you'll find lake Malawi is just a tad bigger then your aquarium. The two species that cross in your tank would never meet in the wild in the first place. Get it?

 

[BBB]

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=106484&hl=

Isn't that stock list a bit irresponsible having 2 types of labidochromis.

 

[freddyk]

Isn't that stock list a bit irresponsible having 2 types of labidochromis.

You're right. The stocking isn't what's irrepsonsible so much as what's done with the fry if they do. As far as the tank in that link goes, DD learned a valuable lesson about that mix, right DD

 

[Fry Lady]

What's up with the Yellow labs with NO black?

http/ekkwill.com/solyellab.html

 

[GuppyDude]

you mean they are supposed to have black? my lfs only sells them solid yellow like in that pic...

 

[Ben]

Isn't that stock list a bit irresponsible having 2 types of labidochromis.

You're right. The stocking isn't what's irrepsonsible so much as what's done with the fry if they do. As far as the tank in that link goes, DD learned a valuable lesson about that mix, right DD

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Yes i did Freddy
But i think BB was concerned about hybridization, not just the aggresion shown by two species. And i wasn;t

you mean they are supposed to have black? my lfs only sells them solid yellow like in that pic...

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Depends which part of Lake Malawi they come from Most Lion Cove's have black, not sure about the rest though

 

[Misskiwi67]

Now I'm not a cichlid person, so don't flame me if I'm not up to date on my info, but we read a very interesting book in my evolution class. It was written by a researcher who had spent several years studying the species of african cichlids before larger, predatory food fish were introduced and annihilated many species of cichlids. I was saddened and angered by his fear that so many of his favorite species were gone forever... all because of irresponsible introduction of a predator fish.

But then there was the epilogue. He went back to the lakes, and discovered the fish were surviving by crossbreeding. They were hardier, and their numbers were increasing, despite the number of predator fish still in the lake. It was his hope that his favorite fish would continue to live on, even if it meant crossing with other species. He was quite excited, because it was evolution in progress. The "fittest" were choosing the best mates available, and by so doing were producing offspring that survived the selective pressures of the introduced predators.

Is this any different than what the fish do in your own tank? Choosing the best mate to produce the healthiest offspring? "Hybrid vigor" is another result of crossing CLOSELY related species. Crossing doesn't always result in poorer reproduction. Look at your dog breeds. Mutts are often healthier and have better temperaments. They're also less predictable, but you can choose a pound puppy or a purebred, whichever YOU prefer.

 

[Fry Lady]

Nice post Misskiwi

FreddyK has had things to say mostly in the negative on most of my posts...........stating from how awful it is that my 2 color varieties of Mbuna decided to get it on 3 times, to the poor specimen I must have had with a dying fish he saw in a picture taken with a cell phone.

Anyway, I love these babies, there is roughly 20 of them and that's that. #### happens and things breed, cross breed and that's how we get the nice things in this world such as the pathetic looking 'parrot fish' a true freak from total irresponsible cross breeding.

2 species from the SAME genus isn't so awful, I'd hate to see what FreddyK thinks of inter-racial marriages.

Anyway, FreddyK.............you may want to pick up the Lexicon of Cichilids by Dr. Herbert Axelrod, you will find many paragraphs to be brow raising.

Yep, may have only been ONE variety of the Peacock, yet you will see various color variations from OTHER regions within the same damn lake. Please explain to me how Aulnocara Baenschi can vary with color from the Maleri region vs Chipoka? And then there are the color morphs of atleast 4 varieties of Stuartgranti<--I so happen have an absolute gorgeous blue morph

And the Socolofi, probably doesn't exist in the wild, atleast we know Albinism in the wild for longevity of survival could be rare to none........they aren't the strong ones yet you see people post pics of Socolofi's to Peacocks to Zebras and on and on that are albinos and quite frankly AWFUL to look at the worst of them the Albino Eureka Red. And don't forget the Fulleborni and Trewavasae according to Axelrod that "I far as I am concerned this species is identical to trewavasae". He also states that he believes this species should be merged with fuellborni as it has exactly the same characteristics as fuelleborni

P.S. Aulnocara variety "Eureka Red" is a HYBRID according to Dr. Axelrod for it is NOT found in the Lake.

P.S. Labidochromis Caeruleus: Our popular yellow variety is also a morph.

P.S> And our Peacocks? They freely interbreed with other Aulnocara fishes which are also called Peacocks. This reinforces the conclusion that they are all color morphs of the same species.

NEWS FLASH Pseudotropheus Greshakei AKA "Ice Blue" And Pseudotropheus Lombardoi AKA "Kenyi" are what my babies are............a HYBRID of what??!! I rest my case..........the same GENUS Pseudotropheus as we know and love them and they are beautiful to me, blue/violet with black vertical bars and black tipped line on their dorsal fins.

Thanks for playing!

 

[pica_nuttalli]

MUTT DOGS ARE NOT HYBRIDS UNLESS THEY HAVE WOLF, COYOTE, OR THE LIKE IN THEIR IMMEDIATE LINEAGE.

A hybrid is the cross between two SPECIES not two BREEDS or COLOR MORPHS.

and Lady,

2 species from the SAME genus isn't so awful, I'd hate to see what FreddyK thinks of inter-racial marriages.

those are fighting words. there is a BIG difference between those two items and to consider them identical... well, those are fighting words to those of us who are in inter-racial relationships. you have just classified people of different ethnic heritage into different species--hmmm, what school of thought does that sound like...?

you know what, i was going to type out a big long precise post but this is the gist:

1) Can you predict the precise needs, sizes, and temperaments of your hybrid fry? If yes, continue.

2) Can you be sure that any of their offspring (should the fry breed) will NOT be recirculated as "pure strain"? If yes, continue.

3) Can you predict the precise needs, sizes, and temperaments of your hybrid fry's fry (should they breed)? If yes, continue.

4) Are you hybridizing species of which wild populations are shrinking due to overfishing, pollution, etc? If no, continue.

5) Is there someone who definitely thinks that the adult hybrid is an "improvement" over the originals? If yes, continue.

6) Are there enough of these someones to provide good homes for every hybrid fry produced every spawn? If yes, continue.

7) Do these "improvements" endanger, impair, or deform the hybrid? If no, continue.

If your hybrid fry can pass each one of these criteria, then it's your own decision to hybridize. But if they fail any of these criteria, hybridization is irresponsible behavior (unless you are hybridizing in order to answer questions 1-3).