Fluidised Sand Bed Filters

[Paul_MTS]

I'm looking into using one of these on my planned 10ft tank as it's been suggested rather than spend out hundreds on a good biological media to fill a sump with.

I'm just researching on best way of using them, and how realiable and effective are they?

cheers Paul.

 

[smithrc]

I'm looking into using one of these on my planned 10ft tank as it's been suggested rather than spend out hundreds on a good biological media to fill a sump with.

I'm just researching on best way of using them, and how realiable and effective are they?

cheers Paul.

I would definatly DIY one

I've not used one but the theory makes perfect sence (even my Dad who never agrees with me- can see the logic)

the reliability of them isnt really an issue - other than the pump, there are no moving parst to go wrong. over time I could see the sand wearing the plastic, but an annual inspection would keep on top of that.

I guess you've read the theory, the effective ness is only limited by the pump, the tube size and the amount of sand

increase these and the better and more effective it gets.

I'm seriously considering making some small ones up to fit in line with external filters so that i can quickly and easily cycle a tank by moving them about... if i ever get a problem with a stalled pump and get a spike - I can quickly move a tube over and get the spike down...

They also allow for heavier stocking due to the massively increased potential for bacteria.

 

[sharp tooth]

ive always built my own and find them to be a great bit of kit, from the small 1.5 liter pop bottles i had in my 4ft tanks to the 4ft tall 6" thick one i built for a centralised system.
they are one of the best filtration methords around and use up little space to filter a huge amount of water.

i would however not use one instead of your sump. your sump should always be the main filtration and the fbf should be the secondery. the problem is if you get a power cut or a problem with the water pump then the bactreia can die off quite quickly (alot quicker than a sump). then youve left with a filter that needs time to catch back up and wont work again for an amount of time.

they are pure bio filtration and no mechanical filteration so they need clean water to be used to stop bits of crap an rubbish getting inside and clogging up pipework over time. onece there running you just leave them to get on with it. they use up a huge amount of 02 from the water so the return pipe should always be added to a place in the tank were say an air stone is or atleast breaking the water surface to help gas exchange.

 

[Paul_MTS]

I'm a little at a loss on where it would go in the system...?

I put it to FFF(Fish, Fur and Feather) a company I'ved been e-mailing about pipe work size for it, and they agreed with my suggestion of putting through a mini sump prefilter kind of unit with some biological media in like K1 which will really polish off any small particals before entering the sand bed and maybe a bit of poly wool.

something like this.....

the next question of course is how do I make a FSB myself and how big does it need to be!? Preferable it would fit under the sand being 30" high or so and maybe have a few units, but if need be I can put them at the end of the tank then it can be as high as the ceiling.

Cheers Paul.

 

[Paul_MTS]

wow just looking through my koi catalogue and found these unit by TMC.

Instead of having a sump and can just stick one of these inline.

http/www.tmc-ltd.co.uk/commercial/hidroclean-filter.asp

Even the biggest one is £240 which is 3" round and 2ft tall. Which in my experience with sumps is probable going to work out cheaper and easier to clean.

the only worry I have is I'm depending upon all these units to keep my fish alive.

 

[sharp tooth]

right, if your looking at buying one of those hydro clear filters then you have no worries about money so why dont you go buy a sand filter whats already made?.
you can pick one up cheaper than the prefilter your thinking about useing.

im on building one at the moment but its only going to be small as i have my sump for main filtration and my planted tank as a nitrate filter.

are you going to be useing a sump on your big tank?
if so then you would put the pump for the fbf in the sump so it wouldent need an extra prefilter as the water from the sump should be crystal.

k1 is a great media to use in a sump, its all ive used for years and find it to be very good and cost efective. youve said the tank will be planted so all the plants will also act as filters with there surface area also holding bacteria. your sand filter isnt going to need to be massive.

as for maintanence and cleaning on a sump, all i ever need to do is change the polywool on the top and wash the top sponge in the drip tray. about once a month, it never been easyer. if you hyave fine sponge and polywool before the k1 the k1 should never need cleaning as there isnt going to be any rubbish getting to it.

were are you located mate? if you want any help setting up your system or even just passing ideas about it much easyer face to face rather than typeing everything out.

sorry i see your in essex, a bit far away from me.

i would add a sump to your tank no matter what, then go from there with the fbf.

 

[Matty]

from what ive heard, they're super effective because every angle of every grain on sand has the capacity to be a site for biological filtration. The people who build mega sized tanks swear by them, but never use them as a stand alone. If i were you, i'd run a sump as the primary method of filtration, and run a second loop through an eheim canister packed with mechanical media to the FBF. that way, you dont have too many things going through the sump line and slowing it down, and if one pump fails, the other is still running.

 

[Paul_MTS]

I wouldn't say there isn't a worry about money but if somethings going to to the job then I'll buy it!

Depending how hard they are to make I would prefer to have some kind of guarantee on anything I buy for a project of this size.

Looking at cloverleaf sand filter in my catalogue again, it's the kind of price I'm willing to foot the bill of and I work in a LFS so can get cloverleaf stuff at trade, along with the pump I'm planning.

Yes I think I will still go with the sump idea, having the above shown prefilter stages. At the moment I run a similiar set up on my 210g tank, the 2 sponges need to be cleaned at the very least every 2 weeks and after about 4 months of the K1 being under this there's a very small ammount of muck turning the top part a light brown, but as you have probable read on koi sites, you can heavily aerate K1 to move this muck out of the system, which is what i'll be planning in any new systems, like the 10fter.

I'ved never tried putting the poly filter straight after the foams, it's all a matter of how much room for maintenance I have really. I'ved been searching for figures on how much K1 i would of had to use if i just had that for my biological and I was aiming for the 200litre kind of figure which is about 10% of the tanks volume.

a thing FFF mentioned is they weren't sure if the flow rate would be too strong for the sump to deal with effectively. when i said a figure of aboue 48x30x20 they said that would do it but still being unsure on how much media to use and how to build the sump effectively with a prefilter thats still a sensible size to clean.

there is no cannister filter that could keep up my flowrate!

I even thought of using a Bubble bead filter, I have 1 of these running on my pond but I wouldn't fork out for another one of them.

CHeers

 

[sharp tooth]

i have a 5x18x18 sump tank on my 8x4x2 tank, half of the sump is a wet/dry tower filled with k1. for the drip tray i use an under bed storage box with about 10 million holes drilled in it. inside the box i have a layer of polywool then sponge on the top. the sponge helps catch the larger bits and stops the huge flow of water forceing a hole threw the filter wool.
i run my sump at about 6" depth in water allowing 10" of the trickle tower to be above water and open to the air. i dont use the k1 as it is designhed to be used, its no submerged i use it just for its high surface area.

i use 4 300w heaters and 3x 3000lph return pumps to the main tank. i have a 2000lph pump returning to a 4ft planted tank above the main tank which overflows back into the main tank.

im now building a 1.5 to 2 liter sand filter out of an acrylic jar i bought. this will just run inside the sump pumping out and returning back to the sump.

i also run 2 large internal filters which both use 2500lph pumps.

on tis system i also use a ups backup battery which keeps 2 of the sump pumps running for a couple of hours in the even of a power failure. next step is a small generator incase of a long powercut.

 

[Paul_MTS]

So I'm guessing you used about 100litres of K1? So as my volume is only going to be another 150gallons on top but compared to how you have yours tsocked at the moment I'm planning for alot more!, so 200litres of media to run is solely sounds pretty good.

If I aim to have 150litres of K1 as part of my prefilter then that should be a suffient back up should anything happen to the sand filter. DO you think i should run the FSB as a closed loop with it's own pump within the sump or will it be able to handle the flow through the main pump?

Reading the info on cloverleaf FSB they don't have a max flowrate unless it pushes the bio mass beyond the transparent section, so weather or not a 13,000lph pump would do this or not.....?? the one that i think would be adequate for me is rated up to 2500gallon ponds and comes with 3kg of bio mass.

Plants wise, my work collegue and I were talking today (yep, customers are pretty rare at work atm!) and he suggested making the tank like a cross section of a river, from the middle where it's all open plan where rays would hang out to the shore where it would be dense with wood and plants where polypterus, eels and gars would hang out. So I'm planning a good 1-2ft of 1 side planted up and probable sticka single 150W halide over this part to make sure the plants do well.

Yer a generator would be nice to keep it going in a emergency, would be annoying to watch few grand of fish waste away without being able to do anything.

 

[Erised]

Seeing as I really don't have the patience to read through the whole thread, plus the fact I'd be bloody useless anyway, I figured I'd dig out a link

DIY FSF

Whether or not it's helpful I don't know, but it will at least give you something to read through

 

[Paul_MTS]

Thanks for that erised, shame he didn't any any pictures in the making!

I think I may revert to doing a DIY one as there really does seem nothing to it. I know where I can get 110mm clear PVC pipe.

And all the FSB's I'ved found so far can't handle any where near the flowrate I want so I reakon a row of home mades would be the best option.

 

[T1KARMANN]

i have just started to use one

it seams ok but i have so much other filteration its hard to tell how well its working

 

[sharp tooth]

you dont want the fsf running on the main pump from the sump. it needs to be on its own pump as they dont handle so much flow.

i would go with the 150 ltr of k1 then 2 fsf on there own pumps from the sump each returning to the main tank. ie the main pump 7000 lph or 2x 3500 lph or what ever size you want. then each fsf with there own 3000 lph pump, giveing you your 13000 lph over all.

you will need nonreturn valves between the pumps and the fsf incase of a power cut or you turn it off, its so the sand dosent rush back up the pipes and jam up the impeller on the pump. you know what sand is like it gets everywere its not ment to.

i just finished my little fsf and fitted it tonight, its nothing on the scale as what your onabout wanting but its good enough for the job ive got for it. i will eventually stock my tank properly but money is tight and i dont want the usual fish that knock about, im hard to please. i only bought the silver aro to see if a small com would work.

 

[Paul_MTS]

Oh right, that could actaully work out a bit better, having the pumps for the FSB's then have the other pump or 2 to run a UV system.

The quesiton is what kind of size FSB will I need?

I know what you mean, it's not been exactly simple to get hold of the fish i have right now.