Fishless Cycling

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Hi! I just set up my 29 gallon tank 3 days ago and want to begin my fishless cycle. I bought a bottle of ammonia. It says that it is pure ammonia with no detergent. However, when I shake the bottle (as advised), it does foam at the top, and the foam remains. Since the instructions on this topic said not to use ammonia that foams, I would like to know if I have to find some new ammonia. Any suggestions, opinions, or comments? I have the water hovering at 84 degrees, as well.

Thank you very much for your help!!!!!
 
Hi Just wanted to say this is a great forum and after 15yrs of fish keeping shared with my brother, i've decided to join a forum and asked the "experts" for advice. I'm what you probably call an intermediate beginner, as i was doing this hobby for 13 years of my life and i'm only 25.

I was lucky enough to have only 3 deaths in the countless aquariums and different set ups my bro and i have over the years including Oscars, devils, fancy goldfish, silver arowana, convicts, jack dempseys, angels, pirranahs etc he was more of the expert, i just kept pond fish and non aggressive fish. I've recently picked back up the hobby 2 years ago - although i didn't cycle the tank - the fish didn't die off ( 3 koi's in a 65 gal (36x18x24) that grew from 4 inches each, to 1foot and half each which prompted me to trade them back in to the LFS (Big Als). I now have a mix community tank with 5 clown loaches (3-4 inches each, 2 angels,5 blue rams, 20 neon tetras,8 shultze corys, and one red tail shark and yellow spotted plec, 3 red dwarf gouramis, and 4 swordtails ( all juveniles except the plec, rams, corys, and gouramis and tetras), in the same 65 us gal tank for about 4 months now ( don't freak out - but i have crushed coral substrate with some bog wood that looks very good i must say, but i know i'm not to use crushed coral unless for african cichlids. And yes i know the clowns can get up to a foot long and a school will be too big for my tank. My question is, and this is why i say i'm an intermediate and don't plan things out; When i decided to get new aquarium 2 years back, as the last time i gave up i ended up selling all my stuff but kept the stand, i just purchased any new 65 gallon aquarium and to my surprise when i got home i had a 48x18 stand.

I'm now so "enthused" with my current inhabitants that i wanna keep if not all but most of my fish to adulthood which would mean getting a larger tank. I saw a 110 gallon tall tank that are my stand dimensions (46x18) and plan on purchasing it along with the right size stand for my current 65 gallon (36x18x24 aquarium) My current tank has 3 filters ( the largest emporium outside power filter, and tetratec 400 and an eheim 2128 cannister fileter - i needed powerful filteration for the kois!)

Anyways i've never practiced "cycling tanks" in the past, i'd just wait 2 weeks after set up, with simple de-cholorinator and just slowly stocked and never had a fish die on me within a year. But since i'm older now and instead of using dad and brother's money, i use my own - so i wanna do it right and not rely on luck. If i purchase this new 110 gallon tank and take the eheim cannister from my 65 gallon - will this cycle it in 2 weeks? I do plan on buying proper substrate for the species of fish i have which leads me to my next question.... I wanna use live plants for the species i have, what kind of "natural substrate" and things do i have to do to make this successful with healthy plants?

Please help me out, but don't tell me that my loaches will still outgrow this 110g and that - when my fish outgrows, i'll worry then, either i buy bigger tank, or trade them in and get juveniles again. And yes both me and my "expert bro" always had nasty habits of over crowding but we were very dedicated in cleaning and maintaining all of our tanks. The old inhabitants of the 65 gallon ( 48x18x18) was 1 2 ft silver arowana, 1 1 and1/2 ft plec, 1 1 ft albino oscar, and 1 1foot devil - which laid eggs several times!) before my brother finally made the difficult decision to trade them back in to LFS after having them for 6 years since he had to go to med school, and i've decided to take a small break from fish keeping since i was entering my "party years".
l.
Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks,
Ca Fai
 
Hi Just wanted to say this is a great forum and after 15yrs of fish keeping shared with my brother, i've decided to join a forum and asked the "experts" for advice. I'm what you probably call an intermediate beginner, as i was doing this hobby for 13 years of my life and i'm only 25.

I was lucky enough to have only 3 deaths in the countless aquariums and different set ups my bro and i have over the years including Oscars, devils, fancy goldfish, silver arowana, convicts, jack dempseys, angels, pirranahs etc he was more of the expert, i just kept pond fish and non aggressive fish. I've recently picked back up the hobby 2 years ago - although i didn't cycle the tank - the fish didn't die off ( 3 koi's in a 65 gal (36x18x24) that grew from 4 inches each, to 1foot and half each which prompted me to trade them back in to the LFS (Big Als). I now have a mix community tank with 5 clown loaches (3-4 inches each, 2 angels,5 blue rams, 20 neon tetras,8 shultze corys, and one red tail shark and yellow spotted plec, 3 red dwarf gouramis, and 4 swordtails ( all juveniles except the plec, rams, corys, and gouramis and tetras), in the same 65 us gal tank for about 4 months now ( don't freak out - but i have crushed coral substrate with some bog wood that looks very good i must say, but i know i'm not to use crushed coral unless for african cichlids. And yes i know the clowns can get up to a foot long and a school will be too big for my tank. My question is, and this is why i say i'm an intermediate and don't plan things out; When i decided to get new aquarium 2 years back, as the last time i gave up i ended up selling all my stuff but kept the stand, i just purchased any new 65 gallon aquarium and to my surprise when i got home i had a 48x18 stand.

I'm now so "enthused" with my current inhabitants that i wanna keep if not all but most of my fish to adulthood which would mean getting a larger tank. I saw a 110 gallon tall tank that are my stand dimensions (46x18) and plan on purchasing it along with the right size stand for my current 65 gallon (36x18x24 aquarium) My current tank has 3 filters ( the largest emporium outside power filter, and tetratec 400 and an eheim 2128 cannister fileter - i needed powerful filteration for the kois!)

Anyways i've never practiced "cycling tanks" in the past, i'd just wait 2 weeks after set up, with simple de-cholorinator and just slowly stocked and never had a fish die on me within a year. But since i'm older now and instead of using dad and brother's money, i use my own - so i wanna do it right and not rely on luck. If i purchase this new 110 gallon tank and take the eheim cannister from my 65 gallon - will this cycle it in 2 weeks? I do plan on buying proper substrate for the species of fish i have which leads me to my next question.... I wanna use live plants for the species i have, what kind of "natural substrate" and things do i have to do to make this successful with healthy plants?

Please help me out, but don't tell me that my loaches will still outgrow this 110g and that - when my fish outgrows, i'll worry then, either i buy bigger tank, or trade them in and get juveniles again. And yes both me and my "expert bro" always had nasty habits of over crowding but we were very dedicated in cleaning and maintaining all of our tanks. The old inhabitants of the 65 gallon ( 48x18x18) was 1 2 ft silver arowana, 1 1 and1/2 ft plec, 1 1 ft albino oscar, and 1 1foot devil - which laid eggs several times!) before my brother finally made the difficult decision to trade them back in to LFS after having them for 6 years since he had to go to med school, and i've decided to take a small break from fish keeping since i was entering my "party years".
l.
Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks,
Ca Fai
 
Hi! I just set up my 29 gallon tank 3 days ago and want to begin my fishless cycle. I bought a bottle of ammonia. It says that it is pure ammonia with no detergent. However, when I shake the bottle (as advised), it does foam at the top, and the foam remains. Since the instructions on this topic said not to use ammonia that foams, I would like to know if I have to find some new ammonia. Any suggestions, opinions, or comments? I have the water hovering at 84 degrees, as well.

Thank you very much for your help!!!!!
Does it say anything about surfactants? Those aren't good either and will produce foam.
 
Hi! I just set up my 29 gallon tank 3 days ago and want to begin my fishless cycle. I bought a bottle of ammonia. It says that it is pure ammonia with no detergent. However, when I shake the bottle (as advised), it does foam at the top, and the foam remains. Since the instructions on this topic said not to use ammonia that foams, I would like to know if I have to find some new ammonia. Any suggestions, opinions, or comments? I have the water hovering at 84 degrees, as well.

Thank you very much for your help!!!!!
Does it say anything about surfactants? Those aren't good either and will produce foam.


It does not. I ended up buying some ProPride Ammonia at Smart and Final, it says no detergents and was approved by the ppl on Aquariacentral, and begun cycling last week.
 
Anyways i've never practiced "cycling tanks" in the past, i'd just wait 2 weeks after set up, with simple de-cholorinator and just slowly stocked and never had a fish die on me within a year. But since i'm older now and instead of using dad and brother's money, i use my own - so i wanna do it right and not rely on luck. If i purchase this new 110 gallon tank and take the eheim cannister from my 65 gallon - will this cycle it in 2 weeks? I do plan on buying proper substrate for the species of fish i have which leads me to my next question.... I wanna use live plants for the species i have, what kind of "natural substrate" and things do i have to do to make this successful with healthy plants?


Thanks,
Ca Fai

Hello and welcome to the forum..

If you are taking the eheim filter from the smaller tank and putting it into the larger tank, the tank will be pretty much cycled for the current fish (bio-load) that you have. Most of the bacteria that is built up during the cycling period is to be found in the filter, so by moving the filter you are moving the majority of the bacteria. A lot of people who are setting up additional tanks (not swapping) put thier new filter in the old tank for a few weeks to cycle the new filter. This is a good way to jump start the process known as cloning.

However, a cycled tank is not a mature tank. Maturity just takes time, and inlcudes the whole tank and all the components in it and not just the filter. With maturity seems to come stability. So keep an eye on things, and keep doing that water testing ;) What you will need to check is the spec of your eheim filter. If you are almost doubling the size of the tank, you need to make sure the filter can cope with the increase amount of water. If not, you may need to upgrade the filter. If you do upgrade the eheim to another eheim, you could always move across the old media which will help too.

For the plants.. make your way across to the planted forum and read some of the pinned topics.. With regards to the substrate, i use sand with a layer of clay (1st layer laterite) underneath the sand. This helps the plants get the nutrients at the root. If you dont have this layer, some people use root tabs which enable you to place the nutrients specifically at the root of plants). Other people swear by things like ADA aquatic soil from places like http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/ , which is a great source for good quality plant stuff.

http://www.plantgeek.net/ is a good source for looking up which plants will suit your tank, which will depend on:
  • If you use CO2..
  • Your level of lighting
  • Your water
  • and... your enthusiasm for maintaining plants and fertilisation levels...
Anyway.. hope that helps..

Good Luck
Squid
 
just though id add my 2 cents, i just crash tested the tetra safe start stuff.

day 1: filled tetra aqua art aquarium with water then added aqua safe to get rid of chlorine

day 2: added safe start to aquarium

day 3: added a dozen malawis, catfish and sucker cats. 15 fish in total

3 weeks later not 1 casulaty or problem

i can highly recomend it
 
I maybe talking out of turn but surely the casulaties will not happen so soon, its only when the effects of the bad water takes hold will you see a problem.
Just my thoughts. (i'm probably wrong)!!
 
just though id add my 2 cents, i just crash tested the tetra safe start stuff.

day 1: filled tetra aqua art aquarium with water then added aqua safe to get rid of chlorine

day 2: added safe start to aquarium

day 3: added a dozen malawis, catfish and sucker cats. 15 fish in total

3 weeks later not 1 casulaty or problem

i can highly recomend it


Thats encouraging. What have the stats shown during this time.

I have been interested in a product called bactinettes which is supposed to dramatically help with cycling, althought about 2 weeks in on thier chart it does look like there will be a small ammount of nitrite, which is not so good. I admit that its better than it would have been, but still a negative...

Squid
 
Great post, well done.

I have just set my tank up and will be starting a fishless cycle soon. What is the consensus on activated carbon filters? Should I remove it? My juwel filter has one in it

Thanks
Aaron
 
Aaron,

Unless your trying to remove medication or tanins produced by bogwood you don't really need it... Although, if you have already have it in your tank you won't be able to use it again, you will need a new one. They are "activated" so to speak, and so aren't re-usable to my knowledge.

Squid
 
Cool, my main concern was it removing the ammonia and nitrates from the tank before the bacteria get to process it

Aaron
 
Start a new thread!

Almost certainly that would've killed all bacteria & therefore back 2 []1. :sad:

Andy
 
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