Fishless Cycling

[tlef316]

still no change in nitrites, and now it appears that amonia eating has slowed down even more. I dont understand. I re-added 3-4 ppm every time the tank went back to zero. There was no change in tank temperature, and only a slight rise in Ph (from like 7.4 to 7.6) I didnt change the amount of amonia added, didnt lose power, didnt do anything bad with the filter media. Any suggestions? I just tested the water (12 hours since i last added amonia) and the amonia has only dropped to around 2 ppm.

Based on everything ive read, ive gotta believe that my beneficial bacteria are dying off. How the heck could that be?

 

[tlef316]

9 hours later and amonia still isnt gone. Its not even down to 1 ppm yet. out of curiousty, i decided the check the Ph again. Somehow, in the past 5 days, the Ph of the tank has dropped from around 7.6 to what appears to be 6.0. Is this even possible? It seems that this would be the reason for my stall, but how could this be? My water is 7.2 out of the tap and i never did anything to alter it. Quick help would really be appreciated, as it looks like im losing benficial bacteria by the minute!!!!

so quick stats:

amonia: between 1 and 2 Ppm (roughly 20 hours after adding 3.5 ppm to the tank)
nitrite 2ppm (has been steady here for the past week or so
nitrate around 40 ppm
Ph 6.0 i think. The water is beige
temp 90 degrees

 

[cookie_db]

In short yes it could happen. I've been cycling my tank now for 8 weeks and have found that my PH will crash quite a bit. A water change will sort this out. My tap water has a pH of 7.2, the water in my tank was at 8 when I first set it up and has crashed to around 6 four times. Hope this helps.

Dani

 

[tlef316]

In short yes it could happen. I've been cycling my tank now for 8 weeks and have found that my PH will crash quite a bit. A water change will sort this out. My tap water has a pH of 7.2, the water in my tank was at 8 when I first set it up and has crashed to around 6 four times. Hope this helps.

Dani

how big of a change? i did a 30% last week at the first signs of stall, and if anything, it made it worse. i just tested my tap, and the Ph is around 7.2

In short yes it could happen. I've been cycling my tank now for 8 weeks and have found that my PH will crash quite a bit. A water change will sort this out. My tap water has a pH of 7.2, the water in my tank was at 8 when I first set it up and has crashed to around 6 four times. Hope this helps.

Dani

and damn, 8 weeks? Everything ive read said cycling takes 3-5 weeks. If i knew it would take that long, i never would have done it. Im regretting that i did it now. I applaude your patience for sure, because im losing mine.

 

[cookie_db]

I've done anywhere between 10% and 30% and have always found that this has kick started the cycle. Don't forget to add dechlorinator, the chlorine could kill your bacteria. I'm sure you did last time but just a little reminder Your tap water's the same as mine, I've always found that my pH in my tank always balances out around there once the water change has been done.

Yeah 8 weeks is a long time but luckily I don't mind. I had the tank sat around empty for nearly 6 months. I just did loads of research and bought myself a bit here and there for it. I'd rather do this than harm the fish in any way

Dani

 

[tlef316]

I've done anywhere between 10% and 30% and have always found that this has kick started the cycle. Don't forget to add dechlorinator, the chlorine could kill your bacteria. I'm sure you did last time but just a little reminder Your tap water's the same as mine, I've always found that my pH in my tank always balances out around there once the water change has been done.

Dani

well thanks. Yeah, i did remember to use tap conditioner during my water change. I guess ill try another 30%. This really sucks. This is the last week I'll have to fully devote to this, as i start my new job next week. This is just too damn frustrating.

 

[tlef316]

ph has only improved to around 6.2 should i do another water change tomorrow?

edit: looks like the ph crashed again. Its down around or below 6. Whats the next thing to try? Bigger water change? Its around 7.2-7.4 out of the tap.

 

[cookie_db]

I'd say do another water change. There's no fish in your tank so you're not going to be stressing anything out. Don't take my word about this as I'm a newbie too but from what I've read you'll be ok.

Dani

 

[Miss Wiggle]

you need to keep that pH up, the lower it gets the slower your cycle goes which is why your having problems.

regular water changes with water of a higher pH should keep it up or you can buffer it with something like crushed coral or tuffa rock

please don't be disheartened, i know this feels like it's taking forever and it's hard work, but if you cycled with fish you'd be having just as much work, probably for much longer and have fish's health to worry abot amongst all this.

however if you really want to kick start it, try either soll bactinettes or tetra safestart if your in the UK, or Bio Spira if your in the USA. These are the only bacteria supplements that have the right bacteria in them which should kick start things a bit. don't add fish straight away, add them and carry on cycling, it should reduce the time frame though.

 

[rdd1952]

Is Ammonia bottles hard to find or do all fish shops sell it? I havent asked yet but will need to get some when i cycle my new tank in about a week

As a general rule, ammonia isn't sold at fish stores. You usually have to get it at a hardware or grocery store on the cleaning aisle. Just make sure it doesn't contain surfactants, detergents, perfumes or dyes.

As for the stalled cycles, the best thing to do is make a big water change, at least 75%. That will get your pH back up close to what it is from the tap and should get your cycle back on track. I'm not certain why it takes some tanks longer to cycle than others. It seems to take longer for small tanks to cycle which really doesn't make much sense. I would think that larger tanks would take longer since there is more ammonia to be broken down that in a small tank. In other words, it takes about 1 ml to raise 5 gallon to 5 ppm (at least with the ammonia I have) so a 10 gallon tank would have about 2 ml of ammonia while a 75 gallon tank would have 15 ml of ammonia in it each time you raise it up. So it should take an additional 4 days (2 doubled 4 times) for the bacteria to develop to process 15ml. But it doesn't seem to run that way.

 

[ArauraDiscus]

That can't be true. Below 6.0 it won't go dormant... How could you account for discus tanks that range from 5.5 to 6.5?? THey are the dirtiest fish and need the biggest bioload and most bacteria, yet can thrive with bacteria below 6.0. If what you said was true, they would all die of ammonia buildup in a day.

 

[rdd1952]

First, I have read this in several articles. Here is one of them and a direct quote from it:

"The pH is also a vital factor in nitrification. Maximum rates of nitrification occur at pH values above 7.2, peaking at 8.3 (a common pH for marine tanks) then falling at higher values. What surprised me was the rate at which the effectiveness of nitrification dropped in acidic pH values: to less than 50% optimal efficiency at pH 7.0, to just under 30% at pH 6.5, and to just over 10% of maximal efficiency at pH 6.0. At these low pH values, nitrifying bacteria don't die, they just stop metabolizing and reproducing. Of course in these acidic conditions, most of the toxic NH3 is ionized to non-toxic NH4. But I had been under the impression (and mentioned here) that the pH needed to drop quite low, below pH 4.8, more like the acidity of a peat bog rather than conditions in a home aquarium. Not so."

Second, ammonia is not toxic at pH levels in the 5s. At or around a pH of 6.o, ammonia is transformed into it's non-toxic form of ammonium. Your test resluts will still yield a positive reading but the ammonium would be non-toxic.

Also, maybe dormant isn't the proper word. As the quote says, the bacteria don't die, they just quit reproducing so if there was enough bacteria present when the pH level dropped below 6.0, those bacteria would continue to process ammonia and nitrite but would not multiply to handle extra waste.

 

[**sarahp**]

I am getting ready to do a fishless cycle; have my ammonia and my test kit. Plants and ornaments are in, just waiting for the filter media to arrive - should be in the next day or two. So tHought I'd have a play with my test kit and just tested my tap water - these are the results.

Not surprisingly

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0

but

Nitrate - 10ppm

So - now I know my tap water already has nitrates in how do I accomodate that in the cycle - ignore it and carry on regardless or what??

Any ideas??

 

[moonstarer]

Hi Sarah,

The nitrate levels for your water are the same as mine. It is common to have some nitrate as stuff is leached into the water supply on its way to the tap. During your fishless cycle you do not really have to worry about the level rising as you will have no fish in the tank. Once your ammonia and nitrite levels have peaked and dropped several times a 10-20% water change will lower the nitrate to a reasonable level. During my fishless cycle the nitrate has gone up to 40ppm, which shows the bacteria are doing their job.

Steve.

 

[**sarahp**]

Thanks Steve Never been so damn concerned about tap water