Fishless cycling... totally confused 8n

[Rocky998]

Thanks. I'm moving in the right direction. The CONSTANT pain is mostly gone. But moving at all still does. Depending on what.. a lot. I actually am still taking VERY low doses of Norco every 6 hours. Chose not to wake up at 3 this morning and when I got up at 9:30 was in a LOT of pain. Doctor figured I'd be on them at least this week. Asking for something way less strong but more than otc stuff on Fri.

Sounds like your doing a bit better. Hopefully the doctor can find something that isn't too strong but still relieves the pain...
I can't say I know exactly what you are going through but I can sympathize with some aspects and understand the way severe back pains affect day to day activities

 

[metropolis93fan]

It's true every pain is a little different but back spasms sound horrible. I get them in my calves sometimes. They are horrible. Can't imagine in the back.
As nasty as this is, it's far better than migraines. I went maybe 7 years with one every day. Actually Originally why I was on disability. I actually wanted to take the ovaries too (endometriosis was the cause of the surgery. 3rd and hopefully last one). I wanted the ovaries out but found out my migraines didn't do well with hormone change. The doctor took me off a hormone med to control endo growth I'd been on for years to try a med for endo PAIN. It typically takes 3-6 months for a new one med to help or an old one to stop helping after going off. 4 months after stopping I had my first full blown one in 6-7 months. It was 6 weeks ago. I got put right back on once we figured out the cause and they're getting better again. But at least with this kind of pain I can distract.. tv, books, games. (Simple no brainer stuff but still entertainment) Migraines have me in a dark silent room unable to think. So we kept them. Hoping it doesn't make the endo come back but I can handle that. Most migraneurs who have their ovaries removed regret it majorly. So as long as they were healthy I opted to keep them and thankfully they were healthy. Time will only tell.
Time to heal and live my life again!

 

[Rocky998]

It's true every pain is a little different but back spasms sound horrible. I get them in my calves sometimes. They are horrible. Can't imagine in the back.
As nasty as this is, it's far better than migraines. I went maybe 7 years with one every day. Actually Originally why I was on disability. I actually wanted to take the ovaries too (endometriosis was the cause of the surgery. 3rd and hopefully last one). I wanted the ovaries out but found out my migraines didn't do well with hormone change. The doctor took me off a hormone med to control endo growth I'd been on for years to try a med for endo PAIN. It typically takes 3-6 months for a new one med to help or an old one to stop helping after going off. 4 months after stopping I had my first full blown one in 6-7 months. It was 6 weeks ago. I got put right back on once we figured out the cause and they're getting better again. But at least with this kind of pain I can distract.. tv, books, games. (Simple no brainer stuff but still entertainment) Migraines have me in a dark silent room unable to think. So we kept them. Hoping it doesn't make the endo come back but I can handle that. Most migraneurs who have their ovaries removed regret it majorly. So as long as they were healthy I opted to keep them and thankfully they were healthy. Time will only tell.
Time to heal and live my life again!

My mom sometimes gets migranes... Seeing her in that pain looked excruciating and I can't imagine what it feels like. I've had my fair share of headaches but nothing like a migraine most definitely...
Pain in the calves sounds irritating and just plain annoying... Are they painful to where you can't walk?
I'll pray for you to hopefully find a way to get better in the best way possible! Someday I'm sure you'll find a doctor who can do something to treat or maybe even cure it!

And yah, it's horrible with lower back pain. THANKFULLY, I've had the luck of not having any severe pain in a while. But when I do I can't move at all. If I do it's instant shooting pain right up my back that is just pure pain... Don't know how else to say it lol. I have to be careful doing water changes or bending down. Cause once my back goes out, it's out for 2-3 days. And when my back isn't out it's in its neutral pain state where it's a very light ache all the time...

 

[TwoTankAmin]

The 1/3 of a bottle of the Tetra Safe start or the Plus says it is good for what size tank? I am thinking it was for a 15 gal. If so 1/3 is enough for the below.

If you have enough of it, you should be able to add it to the tank and put the fish in and be OK. At worst, you may need to change a bit of water. I am assuming it is a 5 gal tank. You should not add any ammonia for the above. The fish will supply it.

The problem with getting plants at pet stores and even some fish stores is their condition. Plants that are not in good shape may not perform as expected right away. But if you can get a healthy bunch of stem plants you can float. 3-5 stems and they would help. You can also plant the stems in the substrate. But plants need light and nighttime as well. Indirect light would be OK. Direct sunlight will likely make algae.

I am used to working with Dr. Tim's One and Only. The two products are almost identical. Dr. Tim discovered what was in them 20+ years ago. He and Tetra (via their parent company) share the patents.

There is one thing you should know about bacterial starters. The live bacteria are pretty hardy. But there are two ways to kill them pretty fast. One is to freeze them. Not an issue now. The other is to let them get to warm. Much over 100F for any time can do them in. So how they are shipped and stored once they leave the manufacturer matters. If your bottle got really hot along the way to your tank, that could have killed some or all of them.

I buy by my Dr. Tim's on Amazon. Our home has Amazon prime and we can get stuff here very fast if we have to for little or no extra cost.

Here are their directions for use for a larger size- I have added some comments in red text:

Shake Well.
To start new aquariums, add entire bottle to aquariums up to X gallons. (The smallest bottle is for 15 gals. so 1/3 should do 5 gal.) Aquarium is then ready for fish. Consult your retailer for advice on type and number of fish appropriate for your aquarium. (You have 1 betta all is OK.)
For healthy maintenance, add one teaspoon (5ml) for every 10 gallons when adding fish, after water changes or after replacing filter media. (Ignore this.)
Tank Preparation: Condition tap water with Tetra AquaSafe®. Maintain a constant, appropriate water temperature in your aquarium. (Any dechlor will do.)
Note: Live Bacteria, do not freeze or expose to heat. (I already said this )

INGREDIENTS: Purified water, Proprietary strains of: Nitrosomonas, Nitrosospira and Nitrospira.

Further suggestions. Do this soon. BE SURE TO START WITH 0 AMMONIA IN THE TANK WATER!!!!
Test for Ammonia and Nitrite in 24 hours and every day before yo go away.
If ammonia is .25 ppm or lees, do nothing. If ammonia is over that change enough water to get it under .50 ppm and .25 is better.
If nitrite is present, take a bit ot water from the tank into a clean glass/cup. Put a pinch of plain old salt in the water, stir and add it to the tank. The chloride in the salt blocks nitrite for entering a fish. You need very little salt in your tank to combat nitrite.

My old brain cannot remember if you have your own well and do not use dechlor. If not, if you have to change some water, dechlor only the new water at the recommended level for your brand. Do not over dose it.

Feed as sparingly as possible. Your fish can go for days without food and do OK. If you plan to leave food for somebody to feed while you are awy. Use a small piece of aluminum foils and wrap up the exacy amout to feed in it, This way all the person needs to do is open the foil and add the food.

 

[metropolis93fan]

I feel for you! Constant pain isn't easy and it prevents you from hobbies you like or makes your life miserable when you do them anyway. In general before the surgery I was doing stuff that hurt and just figured it would be a bad pain day. But now I have hope the pain is solved. And I want it to heal that way. @TwoTankAmin I'm seriously hoping I might get off disability if I heal perfectly. And go slow even after the regular pain is gone for awhile. I want a regular life. I'm 36. I've worked 2 years. Last 2 jobs I had to leave early (seasonal positions) because of my health. I have a degree and would love to use it. But it's a fairly physical job.. I'm not doing ANYTHING to screw things up. I pushed through water changes when I had nothing to screw up. But this could change my life. I'm being extra careful. I hope for the best for you.

 

[metropolis93fan]

The 1/3 of a bottle of the Tetra Safe start or the Plus says it is good for what size tank? I am thinking it was for a 15 gal. If so 1/3 is enough for the below.

If you have enough of it, you should be able to add it to the tank and put the fish in and be OK. At worst, you may need to change a bit of water. I am assuming it is a 5 gal tank. You should not add any ammonia for the above. The fish will supply it.

The problem with getting plants at pet stores and even some fish stores is their condition. Plants that are not in good shape may not perform as expected right away. But if you can get a healthy bunch of stem plants you can float. 3-5 stems and they would help. You can also plant the stems in the substrate. But plants need light and nighttime as well. Indirect light would be OK. Direct sunlight will likely make algae.

I am used to working with Dr. Tim's One and Only. The two products are almost identical. Dr. Tim discovered what was in them 20+ years ago. He and Tetra (via their parent company) share the patents.

There is one thing you should know about bacterial starters. The live bacteria are pretty hardy. But there are two ways to kill them pretty fast. One is to freeze them. Not an issue now. The other is to let them get to warm. Much over 100F for any time can do them in. So how they are shipped and stored once they leave the manufacturer matters. If your bottle got really hot along the way to your tank, that could have killed some or all of them.

I buy by my Dr. Tim's on Amazon. Our home has Amazon prime and we can get stuff here very fast if we have to for little or no extra cost.

Here are their directions for use for a larger size- I have added some comments in red text:

Shake Well.
To start new aquariums, add entire bottle to aquariums up to X gallons. (The smallest bottle is for 15 gals. so 1/3 should do 5 gal.) Aquarium is then ready for fish. Consult your retailer for advice on type and number of fish appropriate for your aquarium. (You have 1 betta all is OK.)
For healthy maintenance, add one teaspoon (5ml) for every 10 gallons when adding fish, after water changes or after replacing filter media. (Ignore this.)
Tank Preparation: Condition tap water with Tetra AquaSafe®. Maintain a constant, appropriate water temperature in your aquarium. (Any dechlor will do.)
Note: Live Bacteria, do not freeze or expose to heat. (I already said this )

INGREDIENTS: Purified water, Proprietary strains of: Nitrosomonas, Nitrosospira and Nitrospira.

Further suggestions. Do this soon. BE SURE TO START WITH 0 AMMONIA IN THE TANK WATER!!!!
Test for Ammonia and Nitrite in 24 hours and every day before yo go away.
If ammonia is .25 ppm or lees, do nothing. If ammonia is over that change enough water to get it under .50 ppm and .25 is better.
If nitrite is present, take a bit ot water from the tank into a clean glass/cup. Put a pinch of plain old salt in the water, stir and add it to the tank. The chloride in the salt blocks nitrite for entering a fish. You need very little salt in your tank to combat nitrite.

My old brain cannot remember if you have your own well and do not use dechlor. If not, if you have to change some water, dechlor only the new water at the recommended level for your brand. Do not over dose it.

Feed as sparingly as possible. Your fish can go for days without food and do OK. If you plan to leave food for somebody to feed while you are awy. Use a small piece of aluminum foils and wrap up the exacy amout to feed in it, This way all the person needs to do is open the foil and add the food.

I uh...wow. you're the ONLY person to tell me it's okay under normal circumstances to just dump in bacteria and then fish. As well as to add ammonia after. I've been on here (like here best) but also several betta discord channels and EVERYONE says cycle first unless it's essentially an emergency which I'm at except I can't do the whole constant water changes. Where did you learn to do this?

 

[itiwhetu]

Yep, I found out the hard way strip test are crap!!!! and ended up draining a 55gallon tank, filling 1/2 way, testing and then draining again x3 times until I could get below 1ppm. Here are pics of my tests, strips versus API Master test. Ammonia test with API made up it's own color..

How do you know the test strips were wrong and it wasn't the master test kit giving the bad information?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

NO NO NO NO
Please reread my post. I specifically wrote You should not add any ammonia for the above. The fish will supply it.

Then further down in the post I wrote BE SURE TO START WITH 0 AMMONIA IN THE TANK WATER!!!!

It is possible to add live bacteria and put in some some fish right away. But this is not an ideal situation for several reasons.

1. The bacteria need a bit of time to wake up and hit capacity to convert ammonia and nitrite.
2. You cannot add a full load of fish. You must start with only a few. Too many and things will go south fast.
3. There is a risk of ammonia and nitrite and you may have to do a few water changes, but you may not. Only time will tell.
4. This method means you have used a way to jump start a fishless cycle and finish it quickly so you can stock fully right a way and turned it into a gradual adding of fish as one would be doing in a fish in cycle with no bacteria added.

Finally, it has not been easy to figure out your exact situation from you posts. I finally figured it out from your last few posts.

A small part of this is my fault. After I wrote the 3 cycling articles I had issues with the way things were being run on this site and I walked away for some time. The plan had been to write a few of more articles. One on how to jump start a cycle using bottled bacteria and/or moving it over from cycled tanks. Another on how to cycle using only live plants. (I am not a fan of the current article now here on this topic.) The final article was on testing from what kits are really needed, how to do use them properly and then when and how to do diluted or concentrated testing. Often this is needed when trying a fish-in cycle.

 

[metropolis93fan]

NO NO NO NO
Please reread my post. I specifically wrote You should not add any ammonia for the above. The fish will supply it.

Then further down in the post I wrote BE SURE TO START WITH 0 AMMONIA IN THE TANK WATER!!!!

It is possible to add live bacteria and put in some some fish right away. But this is not an ideal situation for several reasons.

1. The bacteria need a bit of time to wake up and hit capacity to convert ammonia and nitrite.
2. You cannot add a full load of fish. You must start with only a few. Too many and things will go south fast.
3. There is a risk of ammonia and nitrite and you may have to do a few water changes, but you may not. Only time will tell.
4. This method means you have used a way to jump start a fishless cycle and finish it quickly so you can stock fully right a way and turned it into a gradual adding of fish as one would be doing in a fish in cycle with no bacteria added.

Finally, it has not been easy to figure out your exact situation from you posts. I finally figured it out from your last few posts.

A small part of this is my fault. After I wrote the 3 cycling articles I had issues with the way things were being run on this site and I walked away for some time. The plan had been to write a few of more articles. One on how to jump start a cycle using bottled bacteria and/or moving it over from cycled tanks. Another on how to cycle using only live plants. (I am not a fan of the current article now here on this topic.) The final article was on testing from what kits are really needed, how to do use them properly and then when and how to do diluted or concentrated testing. Often this is needed when trying a fish-in cye

 

[metropolis93fan]

OMG I am so sorry! Wow did I misread! Apologies. Gotcha. I feel like a jerk... how I wrote that! Rereading it especially. No one deserves a jerk regardless of content (unless nice doesn't work) which will really beat home the message of read carefully before replying. I appreciate all your help.

 

[metropolis93fan]

Also.. I'd rather not put my address and name in a forum for anyone to see. Have my reason. I can't message you though. How can we get around this?

 

[Colin_T]

Also.. I'd rather not put my address and name in a forum for anyone to see. Have my reason. I can't message you though. How can we get around this?

private message each other, then the info won't be online for the world to see.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Oops- not sure why but I had PM disabled. Try to PM again. DOH!

 

[metropolis93fan]

private message each other, then the info won't be online for the world to see.

I'd already tried. He had his private messaging turned off. He turned it back on when he read your post. Thanks!

 

[Rocky998]

If @TwoTankAmin is saying to add the bacteria and then fish I would do that then! I wanted to say this but I really wasn't sure if it would be a good idea and I was afraid I would get screamed at lol

I feel for you! Constant pain isn't easy and it prevents you from hobbies you like or makes your life miserable when you do them anyway. In general before the surgery I was doing stuff that hurt and just figured it would be a bad pain day. But now I have hope the pain is solved. And I want it to heal that way.

Yup sure does. I'm a teen. I shouldn't have these pains. But I just thank the person texting behind us going 40mph for my lovely state of pain.