Valkyrie_Lips
Fish Crazy
The size alone makes it too small to cycle.
Fishless cycling... totally confused 8n
- Thread starter metropolis93fan
- Start date
The size alone makes it too small to cycle.
No. Not at all. Some shrimp tanks only at 1g go through a cycle...
Valkyrie_Lips
Fish Crazy
A tank that small is *harder* to cycle especially without a filter. Besides the lack of filter just think about how little surface area there is in a 1.5 and how few decor/hardscape pieces you could fit. Thus, there is minimal surface area for BB to colonize.
Those shrimp tanks usually also have a filter of some kind or are incredibly heavily planted.
Yes but cycled is still cycled. Bacteria grows and when it does, it "eats" the ammonia. Then nitrates come about. It does cycle no matter how you look at it
Valkyrie_Lips
Fish Crazy
And any cleaning of a filterless tiny tank would remove BB on surfaces making the cycle highly unstable and basically impossible to maintain. I'm not talking about heavily planted shrimp tanks, i'm talking about this betta tank that is probably not planted.
Well don't wipe down all the surfaces in the tank then every maintenance day
Valkyrie_Lips
Fish Crazy
Well don't wipe down all the surfaces in the tank then every maintenance day
It's not just the surfaces it's the volume and size that is problematic too. Shrimp tanks are set up in a very specific way and have a low bioload comparatively. 1.5 is simply too small to cycle with a fish period.
This could be true... But I still think it is possible
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
OK- here is how to do this. You need not to do a fish in cycle, At best the fish wont die and at worst it will.
Using a cycled tank is not a requirement ti keep fish, but it makes it safer and is a whole less lot work. So what does this mean here? You can park your betta while you cyle its tank if you want. Here is how to do this.
You do not need a tank, you just need a safe container. A Rubbermaid costainer that holds a few gallons will be fine. You will need a heater and an air pump and air stone. You will set this up like a tank but you will not need a cycle. Instead you will change the water every day or two. That will be determined by what size container you use and by testing for ammonia. The bigger the container the better in this regard, to a point. 5 gal. would be fine.
Test after 24 hours. If ammonia is .25 ppm or less, you can go another day. Do not feed the fish daily, in fact every 3rd day is fine. Healthy fish which are not very young can do fine without food for some time. The smaller the contain you get to "park' the betta, the more frequently you will need to change water. You and these water changes are the filter for an uncycled tank for the duration.
You need to vacuum any waste from the container at least once a day- remove fish poop and any uneaten food after you feed. If you can put in a fake plant or two so the fish can hide, this will help but if not it isn't a huge deal. A couple of live floating plants would help but are not a must. The water changes will keep the fish safe, the heater and air will keep the water warm and clean. It is very important to do the water changes, without them you will be back where you are now.
Next, the nitrifying bacteria are live and they reproduce by dividing. They do not form spores. Stability is a bottle of spores. As a rule the last option for a tank is to add some chemical/cure when it isn't really needed and wont help. It may hurt. You did right getting the Tetra SafeStart, the problem is the surgery in the middle made what you were doing difficult to succeed. When we add live bacteria to a tank, it needs ammonia. When this is a bottled product like Safe Start, it takes the bacteria day or so to wake up and to go to work (they are dormant in the bottle). One of the first things they do is to attach to hard surfaces and create a bio-film in which they and other bacteria live and work in concert.
You needed to be actively helping the bacteria when you had to stop for surgery. So what happened to them is hard to say. But a ton of them should have removed all ammonia from 1 ppm pretty fast, 2 days max. After than they needed to be fed ammonia. Normally established bacteria go dormant when what they need is suddenly gone. But it takes a while for them to settle in and ammonia additions are needed every few days or sooner. Since you could not do them..........
If money is a problem that makes your options more limited. To add the proper bacteria or to get live plants costs money. If you have more of the tetra product unused this would help here. It would make it possible to do this all very differently. the same applies if you can get a bunch of live plants. But I get the impression that you may not be able to spend much more at this time.
The above solution using a container to park the fish will give you time to insure its permanent home is well cycled before the goes back into the tank.
As noted above the cycle will slow the lower the pH. At 8.0 it appears to stop. It does not, it just works way slower and it takes longer to oestablish the cycle. There are few cheap options for changing ones water parameters the bigger the tank involved is.
I have tons of excess live plants and am happy to mail you some at no cost to you, But They likely would npt get there for some number of days as the USPO is not as fast as it used to be. I have anubias, java fern and long leaf hygrophila. This last one is a fast growing stem plant you can float. I can afford to cover the shipping cost for few plants as well, so do not worry about that part. I could send some crypts but they need to be growing in substrate.
If you want the plants I will need a name and shipping addy. I would send them Priority mail in a fixed price box. I am in NY not far outside NYC. Unless the temps are really high they should be fine. It doesn't make sense to send them in an insulated box as it would be cheaper to send money for you to buy them locally.
Using a cycled tank is not a requirement ti keep fish, but it makes it safer and is a whole less lot work. So what does this mean here? You can park your betta while you cyle its tank if you want. Here is how to do this.
You do not need a tank, you just need a safe container. A Rubbermaid costainer that holds a few gallons will be fine. You will need a heater and an air pump and air stone. You will set this up like a tank but you will not need a cycle. Instead you will change the water every day or two. That will be determined by what size container you use and by testing for ammonia. The bigger the container the better in this regard, to a point. 5 gal. would be fine.
Test after 24 hours. If ammonia is .25 ppm or less, you can go another day. Do not feed the fish daily, in fact every 3rd day is fine. Healthy fish which are not very young can do fine without food for some time. The smaller the contain you get to "park' the betta, the more frequently you will need to change water. You and these water changes are the filter for an uncycled tank for the duration.
You need to vacuum any waste from the container at least once a day- remove fish poop and any uneaten food after you feed. If you can put in a fake plant or two so the fish can hide, this will help but if not it isn't a huge deal. A couple of live floating plants would help but are not a must. The water changes will keep the fish safe, the heater and air will keep the water warm and clean. It is very important to do the water changes, without them you will be back where you are now.
Next, the nitrifying bacteria are live and they reproduce by dividing. They do not form spores. Stability is a bottle of spores. As a rule the last option for a tank is to add some chemical/cure when it isn't really needed and wont help. It may hurt. You did right getting the Tetra SafeStart, the problem is the surgery in the middle made what you were doing difficult to succeed. When we add live bacteria to a tank, it needs ammonia. When this is a bottled product like Safe Start, it takes the bacteria day or so to wake up and to go to work (they are dormant in the bottle). One of the first things they do is to attach to hard surfaces and create a bio-film in which they and other bacteria live and work in concert.
You needed to be actively helping the bacteria when you had to stop for surgery. So what happened to them is hard to say. But a ton of them should have removed all ammonia from 1 ppm pretty fast, 2 days max. After than they needed to be fed ammonia. Normally established bacteria go dormant when what they need is suddenly gone. But it takes a while for them to settle in and ammonia additions are needed every few days or sooner. Since you could not do them..........
If money is a problem that makes your options more limited. To add the proper bacteria or to get live plants costs money. If you have more of the tetra product unused this would help here. It would make it possible to do this all very differently. the same applies if you can get a bunch of live plants. But I get the impression that you may not be able to spend much more at this time.
The above solution using a container to park the fish will give you time to insure its permanent home is well cycled before the goes back into the tank.
As noted above the cycle will slow the lower the pH. At 8.0 it appears to stop. It does not, it just works way slower and it takes longer to oestablish the cycle. There are few cheap options for changing ones water parameters the bigger the tank involved is.
I have tons of excess live plants and am happy to mail you some at no cost to you, But They likely would npt get there for some number of days as the USPO is not as fast as it used to be. I have anubias, java fern and long leaf hygrophila. This last one is a fast growing stem plant you can float. I can afford to cover the shipping cost for few plants as well, so do not worry about that part. I could send some crypts but they need to be growing in substrate.
If you want the plants I will need a name and shipping addy. I would send them Priority mail in a fixed price box. I am in NY not far outside NYC. Unless the temps are really high they should be fine. It doesn't make sense to send them in an insulated box as it would be cheaper to send money for you to buy them locally.
OP
OP
metropolis93fan
Fish Crazy
I'm so sorry! I used to get alerts to every message here. I got on to check the cycling guide again and found all these posts!
I really can't do frequent water changes or really any right now. Going to do one on my other tank with my mom before leaving Friday for the weekend. Don't want to worry about a dirty tank after I'm back and alone.
If you think lots of plants would work... I can try that temporarily. I don't really want a live planted tank honestly. I have a blue color scheme. What would be best and cheapest? Mom's tank is NOT cycled. Not even when I used a sponge filter I only rinsed in tank water. Now I'm using a penn-plax filter just to keep debris under control. Not doing enough though! Of course my mother just couldn't contemplate how not taking out uneaten food could be that bad when just 1 piece. But that adds up fast! Thankfully I don't have that to deal with anymore! I'd love to get him out. Just worry about the cycling. I'm putting HIM in a cycled tank, actually. My own fish is moving from the bedroom tank to the new tank. (I spend more time out here and want to see my own fish lol) He tolerated an in tank cycling initially in January because I didn't know better and he was so weak then that I had to grind his food to powder because he couldn't crunch anything. Now he's a happy little eater! Maybe he's strong enough. It's frustrating. I got my first nitrites today! Don't have the value near. Maybe. 25 ppm? And ammonia maybe .75 ppm compared to 1 last night after adding a drop of ammonia. I don't know what's better.
Ps surgery a definite success. Think after a year of pain we finally figured out the cause of pain. (went through multiple doctors, procedures, er visits with one winding up in 9 days in patient for pain management since end of July last year.) But still in pain and will be a while. Not the best time to take on a new fish but I kinda need to. Mom won't understand rehoming hers. If you think at of plants temporarily would make far fewer tank changes needed... I can probably do 1/4 gallon changes next week but not repeatedly same day. I'll take your best suggestion for the fish and if plants best cheapest easiest ones possible. On a budget with disability.
OP
OP
metropolis93fan
Fish Crazy
Missed your post somehow! Shoot! Ok. Fish is in the 1.5 gallon already. I can't afford a 3rd heater. His is currently in the cycling tank. My apartment is warmer than my parent's place especially in bedroom where he is.OK- here is how to do this. You need not to do a fish in cycle, At best the fish wont die and at worst it will.
Using a cycled tank is not a requirement ti keep fish, but it makes it safer and is a whole less lot work. So what does this mean here? You can park your betta while you cyle its tank if you want. Here is how to do this.
You do not need a tank, you just need a safe container. A Rubbermaid costainer that holds a few gallons will be fine. You will need a heater and an air pump and air stone. You will set this up like a tank but you will not need a cycle. Instead you will change the water every day or two. That will be determined by what size container you use and by testing for ammonia. The bigger the container the better in this regard, to a point. 5 gal. would be fine.
Test after 24 hours. If ammonia is .25 ppm or less, you can go another day. Do not feed the fish daily, in fact every 3rd day is fine. Healthy fish which are not very young can do fine without food for some time. The smaller the contain you get to "park' the betta, the more frequently you will need to change water. You and these water changes are the filter for an uncycled tank for the duration.
You need to vacuum any waste from the container at least once a day- remove fish poop and any uneaten food after you feed. If you can put in a fake plant or two so the fish can hide, this will help but if not it isn't a huge deal. A couple of live floating plants would help but are not a must. The water changes will keep the fish safe, the heater and air will keep the water warm and clean. It is very important to do the water changes, without them you will be back where you are now.
Next, the nitrifying bacteria are live and they reproduce by dividing. They do not form spores. Stability is a bottle of spores. As a rule the last option for a tank is to add some chemical/cure when it isn't really needed and wont help. It may hurt. You did right getting the Tetra SafeStart, the problem is the surgery in the middle made what you were doing difficult to succeed. When we add live bacteria to a tank, it needs ammonia. When this is a bottled product like Safe Start, it takes the bacteria day or so to wake up and to go to work (they are dormant in the bottle). One of the first things they do is to attach to hard surfaces and create a bio-film in which they and other bacteria live and work in concert.
You needed to be actively helping the bacteria when you had to stop for surgery. So what happened to them is hard to say. But a ton of them should have removed all ammonia from 1 ppm pretty fast, 2 days max. After than they needed to be fed ammonia. Normally established bacteria go dormant when what they need is suddenly gone. But it takes a while for them to settle in and ammonia additions are needed every few days or sooner. Since you could not do them..........
If money is a problem that makes your options more limited. To add the proper bacteria or to get live plants costs money. If you have more of the tetra product unused this would help here. It would make it possible to do this all very differently. the same applies if you can get a bunch of live plants. But I get the impression that you may not be able to spend much more at this time.
The above solution using a container to park the fish will give you time to insure its permanent home is well cycled before the goes back into the tank.
As noted above the cycle will slow the lower the pH. At 8.0 it appears to stop. It does not, it just works way slower and it takes longer to oestablish the cycle. There are few cheap options for changing ones water parameters the bigger the tank involved is.
I have tons of excess live plants and am happy to mail you some at no cost to you, But They likely would npt get there for some number of days as the USPO is not as fast as it used to be. I have anubias, java fern and long leaf hygrophila. This last one is a fast growing stem plant you can float. I can afford to cover the shipping cost for few plants as well, so do not worry about that part. I could send some crypts but they need to be growing in substrate.
If you want the plants I will need a name and shipping addy. I would send them Priority mail in a fixed price box. I am in NY not far outside NYC. Unless the temps are really high they should be fine. It doesn't make sense to send them in an insulated box as it would be cheaper to send money for you to buy them locally.
I really appreciate offer for plants. Would that speed up the cycling? I'm leaving Fri morning for my parents coming back Monday. Should probably give you their address so it gets inside out of heat. Please first read my last post just above this one regarding which fish goes where. Let me know if that makes a difference first!
OP
OP
metropolis93fan
Fish Crazy
Do the plants quicken cycling? TwoTankAmin suggested keeping the fish in a separate tank (assuming his 1.5 suffices) and using plants in cycling tank. Confused honestly. I read in the guide for planted tanks it takes 6 MONTHS to cycle like that? How is that helping?
Well not 6 months this way see... Planted tank is kinda always cycling for a while... BUT you are doing a fishless one. Plants help take up ammonia, which helps release the burden on nitrites and nitrates. But I would add them in NEAR the END of the cycle... They could melt under high ammonia levels
OP
OP
metropolis93fan
Fish Crazy
@twotankadmin suggested NOT doing in fish but doing just plants and keeping the fish in a holding tank. (Actually offered to send some plants!) See their whole post above. So a little confused.
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