Fishless Cycle- Water Query

[eaglesaquarium]

No problem.

 

[bretty1984]

Ok i have done a nitrite reading and it looks to be well over 5.0ppm.
 
Is this normal? 
 
I have also added some more ammonia, but a little less than I added last time. 
 
Is there anything else I should do at this point?
 
Thanks

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Wait.  Nitrite sitting at 5.0ppm already means that you don't want to add more than 1ppm ammonia unless your nitrite drops back onto the scale, like 2ppm or so, etc.
 
From cycling article:
 

If at any time you test and ammonia is under .75 ppm and nitrite is clearly over 2 ppm, it is time to add more ammonia. Add the same full amount as you did the first time. Now, begin to test the ammonia and nitrite levels every other day. (You should be seeing nitrate soon if you have the kit.)
 
After the second ammonia addition, while waiting for nitrite to rise, peak and drop, the bacteria will need a maintenance feeding. When you get two consecutive ammonia readings of 0 ppm, give the bacteria a “snack” by adding 1/3 of the full amount. This “snack” should be needed somewhere between days 21 and 27 of the cycle.
 
After the maintenance feeding, whenever you test and ammonia is .25 ppm or lower and nitrite is clearly under 1 ppm, it is time to add a full ammonia dose again and test in 24 hours.
If ammonia and nitrite both read 0 ppm, you are cycled. Do a large water change, be sure the water is the proper temperature, and add fish. The odds are this will not be the case quite this soon.

 

[bretty1984]

I have a feeling I may have added more than 1ppm of ammonia, but I wont know until the morning.
 
So looking at that article, I now need to test the ammonia and nitrite and wait for the ammonia to drop again but this time to 0ppm.
when I added the ammonia this time I did add a lot less than I did last time. It was barely just a drop.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Good.  The waiting begins in earnest.

 

[bretty1984]

Well I have just taken the readings again and it looks as though the ammonia reading is lower than yesterday which is around 0.25, it may even be lower. Having looked at the picture it may even be 0? What do you think about the ammonia reading? Would you say it is lower than 0.25?

 
However, the Nitrite reading is the same as yesterday so I have added some more ammonia to the tank. Have I done the right thing?
 

 

[bretty1984]

This is where I am finding it confusing now as the ammonia is clearly dropping and the nitrites are high, is it just a case of adding more ammonia every time the reading is below 0.25?
How long should it take for the nitrites to drop? 

 

[TwoTankAmin]

The nitrite bacs start later and reproduce slower. I do not know what ammonia dosing regimen you are following. What I can tell you is the biggest problem with fishless cycles are caused by adding too much ammonia whichin turns reates too much nitrite and it is this which usually screws the cycle.
 
The API test kits uses a scale of measuring such that the danger level for nitrite in terms of harming the bacteria, is just over 16 ppm. The kit only goes up to 5 ppm. Since these kiyts are one of the most popular in the hobby, I wrote the cycling article here to make it impossible to accumulate too much nitrite as long as the dosing directions are followed. If one deviates and begins dosing higher amounts or more frequently than needed , it makes it possible to have nitrites rise too high.
 
The only way one can have any idea how much of 5 ppm the nitrites might be is to do diluted testing using distilled or ro/di water.
 
There is little need to test nitrates, especially if you have unknown nitrites. The kit works by first converting the nitrate to nitrite and then it measures that. Any nitrite in the water already will get counted as nitrate.
 
As for the general timing of things in a fishless cycle with no seeding of proper bacteria is laid out in the chart in the article.

 

[bretty1984]

So is there anything that I should or can do now to get things moving in the right direction if they aren't already. Looking at my nitrite reading I am not sure what it is at, but the colouring of the solution looks as though it could be over 5.0ppm but I have no idea how much,
 
I am not sure if I am missing something here, and apologies if I am, but the article says if my ammonia levels drop below .75 and the nitrites are over 2.0ppm then to add the same amount that I added for the first time.
 
I would say that I didn't add as much as I did first time around as I think I added too much but I added some more yesterday ( this was the second time ammonia was added). I took a reading this morning and the ammonia reading had dropped lower than it was yesterday, despite me adding more ammonia to the system yesterday. So am I right in thinking that something is working in some way shape or form as the ammonia is dropping?
 
Again, this morning, as per the advice in the article as the readings were below .75 for ammonia and above 2 for nitrites then I  added some more again.
 
I am sorry for asking what may seem like silly questions, but I feel like I am missing something but I just want to make sure everything is right!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

You are in the 'snack' phase of the process now for the ammonia bacs.
 
 
Don't add ammonia daily... instead add 1/3 the original amount every 3 days or so.  This is enough to allow the ammonia bacs to stay alive, while not discouraging the growth of the nitrite bacs.
 
 
Things are progressing nicely... you are in 'phase two' - nitrite spike.  You just have to wait this period out.  It can be a little while for this to happen.
 
 
The ONLY thing that you could do to really help you out here is to do a water change (~50%) to remove some of the excess nitrite in the water.  But that is not necessary by any means.  The water change would lower the nitrite, which would encourage more bacteria to grow, as if it gets too high it actually will inhibit growth.  And it will add a bit more carbonates to the water, boosting the kH.   But, this isn't really necessary at all.  Its not bad practice, and you could certainly also aim to add temp matched water... but again, this would be only optional. 
 
 
In the meantime, I would suggest you use this 'down time' as an opportunity to research more about the fish you plan to keep... research your local fish shops... don't just assume that you should go to the one closest to your home.  Check all of them that would be within a radius you would be willing to go to for fish.
 
Buying incidentals like food, dechlorinator, etc. from any ol' fish shop is fine.  But, when it comes to buying your stock, you want to be picky.  Price is far from the only consideration.  Some stores have wider selections.  Some stores have better, healthier stock.  Some offer 'arrive alive' guarantees.  Some are just better at everything.  You'll want to shop around for your shops...  Inspect the tanks closely.  Look for diseased or dying fish.  Dead fish.  Look at the condition of the tanks.  Listen to the advice they give to other customers.  Ask their advice about your tank. 
 
 
Personally, I have 3 stores near me that I have no qualms about making purchases from.  I have one that offers a very wide selection, but is a two hour drive (one way) that I only go to for very specific items, (I.e. plants, varieties of fish not available elsewhere, or just to take it all in) and I have one that I will only buy supplies from, never live stock (again...).
 
 
Hopefully this helps.

 

[bretty1984]

Wow thanks for that information again, once more I am extremely appreciative!
 
I an enthused that I am progressing with things, its good to know that I am doing some things right!
 
Just a couple of questions!
 
1. If I only have to add ammonia every 3 days, should I still test for ammonia and nitrites every day or should I test these every three days also?
2. If the water change will help me then I am very keen to do this,but how would I get the water to match the temp of the tank? Would I boil water and then wait for it to cool? Also I am assuming I would still have to add the water conditioner so that it removes the chlorine?
 
I will also take up your advice on what fish to add to my tank in the mean time.
 
Many Thanks

 

[eaglesaquarium]

No problem...
 
Temp matched... I have a mixer tap and just mix hot from the tap with cold from the tap.  Works great for me.  Yes, dechlorinator must be added to the new water.
 
A few degrees cooler isn't a huge deal. 
 
I'd only be testing the nitrite daily until it hits zero to keep tabs on where that is.

 

[bretty1984]

No worries, I have a mixer tap so I will use that instead.
 
Thanks

 

[bretty1984]

Just did the water change and added more de-chlorinator to the tank. Also the temp of the water was right where it needed to be.
 
Checked the Nitrites before I changed the water and there was no real movement in the result so will test again tomorrow.
 
Hopefully I have done everything right.

 

[bretty1984]

Would anyone happen to know how long it should take for my 23L tank to cycle as a rough guide, or when I would be likely to be able to add some fish in?