Fishless Cycle Starting Today

[gforce17]

I'm now into my 8th week of cycling my 260l. The ammonia has been going down very quickly for ages now but the nitrites are still showing, although seriously less pink than before. I still keep patient. My wife says' "I've given up thinking there will ever be any fish in that thing!!" She's lovely really!

 

[Alm0stAwesome]

I haven't read all of the thread but I found that when I started to see a difference in the nitrite reading it very quickly (like w/in 24 hours) gave me a 0 reading. Good luck and don't lose hope!

 

[gforce17]

Thanks for the reassurance, but my liquid test (Nutrafin) has shown a very light pink for over a week now. This is low I know, but in my fully cycled tank the test is completely clear and I would like it to be the same. I'm wondering whether to do a fairly big water change over the weekend?

 

[JDs4me]

Funny, I was hoping for a magical 0 tonight after two detected movements (so impatient!), but no, NO2 is on 1-2ppm after 12 hours...I'm just happy to see it change over 24hrs so hope for a repeat tomorrow morning. The NH3 dose was a little heavier this morning and I feel its around 0.25 after 12 hours, but happy with that as it is now virtually clearing in 12 hours and has been for over 10 days so I think I'm there with NH3. the higher dose assumedly will effect NO2 clearance time...

gforce17 - I have been at it now for 3.5 weeks since the first addition of ammonia; I have been doing large almost daily water changes to keep the nitrite spike low so that I could read the first sign of change, which was over a 24 hour period, four days ago (three weeks into the cycle). Although only over 24 hours, it is good to see and be able to measure the change! My nitrites have never been over 3ppm since I started doing the big daily water changes (which I started when the ammonia was clearing in 12 hours and the nitrite spike started to climb!). I also haven't been dosing NH3 to 5ppm, keeping it in the 2ppm area since it began clearing in 12 hours (2ml added to get this in my tank). I also dropped the water level in the tank so that there is lots of O2 in there through airstone and filter outlet water falling onto water surface. Am now increasing NH3 to 3ml dose to see how quickly the higher dose cleared (2ppm to 0.25ppm in 12 hours today).


I do hope I don't have 8 weeks to wait...I can sympathise with your wife! But it sounds like your wait is nearly over - good luck to you!!

AlmOstAwesome - thanks for the comment and hope grows daily!

 

[gforce17]

If you keep changing the water you are bound to have low nitrite readings but you've got to be sure that the filter is developing the bacteria to deal with the full level of nitrites that you will eventually have when you stock with fish. The fish less cycle instructions don't talk about big daily water changes.

 

[JDs4me]

Just done 11.30pm reading - nitrites dropped to just 0.25ppm, thats 16 hours after ammonia addition; NH3 is zero...hope you're right AlmOstAwesome!

Hey Welshweeks, yeah maybe the end is in sight! What do you put your NH3 spike down to? Must check out what you are stocking now; fish good I hope?

 

[gforce17]

I'm fascinated by the amount of ammonia you say you're adding to bring you levels up to 2ppm and 3ppm. The calculator told me to add 13.8ml of ammonia to my 260l tanks to raise the ammonia levels to the required.

 

[Xraymark]

might be worth mentioning on your methodology above that when using the calculator for initial NH3 dosage, take into account you are dosing the volume of water in the tank, not the tank size! I fell for that one and did not reduce my volume estimate enough (260litre tank; I reduced my estimated volume to 250...silly in hindsight as 220 was probably closer!)

Yes, good point. I've been doing this so long I take some things for granted and forget that they're not at all obvious when you're just setting out. I'll do it now, thanks.

Can I add to this, people forget the volume of water in an external filter if using. Some filters can use upto 10 litres which would be added to the overall volume of water in the tank.

Thats all I have to add to this discussion.

Good luck in your cycle

 

[JDs4me]

I'm fascinated by the amount of ammonia you say you're adding to bring you levels up to 2ppm and 3ppm. The calculator told me to add 13.8ml of ammonia to my 260l tanks to raise the ammonia levels to the required.

My first dose of ammonia was 12ml...it took my ammonia level to 8ppm; I hadn't factored in the fact that although the tank is a 260 litre it doesn't hold anything like that if not filled; even less when substrate etc is added. My realistic volume of water, including the filter (thanks Xraymark), was probably closer to 220, but its a bit of a guessing game really. My water level is now even lower as I want the filter output water to 'waterfall' into the tank so that there is ample oxygenation. This is why my 3ml of ammonia is taking me to 2ppm.

As to your point that I need to ensure that the filter is developing the bacteria required to deal with the nitrites...well, it seems to be on its way to doing just that; my nitrites are disappearing within 16-24hrs at the moment. The idea of the water change is so that I can measure the first signs of NO2 dropping due to my colour-blindness..there is no problem with doing water changes so I am advised, its just that with fishless cycling you don't have to. But then you get a large NO2 spike that apparently doesn't move because you can't register such movement - the kit I have won't show you any movement above its max 5ppm...by keeping the NO2 around 3ppm I can see it when it happens!

Hope that clarifies why I've been doing it this way!

Check out the 'Beginners Resource Centre'; Bignose describes in-cycle water change benefits more fully!

 

[Welshweeks]

Just done 11.30pm reading - nitrites dropped to just 0.25ppm, thats 16 hours after ammonia addition; NH3 is zero...hope you're right AlmOstAwesome!

Hey Welshweeks, yeah maybe the end is in sight! What do you put your NH3 spike down to? Must check out what you are stocking now; fish good I hope?

Not sure really, it was very small spike only really just above 0ppm but thought I'd would change to be on the safe side. A water change was due the next day anyway. Currently having trouble with the Dwarf Gouramis, the male is bullying the female so she's in a quarantine type of floating box at the moment! don't want to risk getting another female yet and after doing some reading the male could still end up attacking the same female so IF she recovers I might see if anyone wants her or as a last resort take her back to the LFS I got her from.

 

[JDs4me]

Good job you only have one male then...they are territorial yes? I think they can be aggressive towards their own kind and the females need to be able to hide (I had a pair many years ago so memory may be letting me down - beautiful males though). Good luck with them!

 

[Welshweeks]

Yes, she has places to hide but obviously not enough! Will just have to see how things go.

 

[gforce17]

ERROR

 

[gforce17]

JDs4me - I have a Seneye measuring my ammonia levels and regardless of how much water less than 260l I have in the tank I have to add at least 13 ml to get the ammonia levels up to anything like 1ppm now. This indicates to me that the ammonia is being eaten up very well now, but the nitrites are still not being dealt with properly. The Seneye isn't able to measure nitrites as yet so I'm having to rely on the liquid test. I really hope that you will be able to knock weeks off this amazing process but my reading on this forum since last October leads me to believe that done properly it takes at least 6 weeks plus. Good luck to you too!

 

[JDs4me]

mmm...to my mind your ammonia bacs must be blindingly super-efficient if they can instantly get 13ml NH3 added to 260 litres down to less than 1ppm...!! Perhaps you are working to a different methodology to me, otherwise your stats don't match mine. Do you add the 13ml all in one go? I'm interested as even with a well-established filter that amount is not going to clear out for a fair few hours, so your NH3 count has to be higher than 1ppm for a while at least...13ml took my reading the first time to 8+ppm and I needed to do several large water changes to get it back down to the 3-4ppm I wanted.

As I see it, if you add the same amount of NH3 to two different volumes of water, then the concentration will be higher in the smaller one. Thats why the calculator varies the amount of NH3 added dependant on the literage...if you added 13ml of ammonia to 1 litre you would have a reading higher than 1ppm; if added to a lake it wouldn't register! So your readings are questionable surely?

I really hope you can get your cycle moving on...perhaps you could start a thread just to confirm whats happening in there, as that sounds like a lot of NH3 going in to me? I've also done plenty of reading on here whilst twiddling my thumbs in cycle mode; some tanks seem to cycle quickly, others not...best to stick with the one method you trust most, I reckon! Good luck and I hope it works out for you soon!

BTW, my NH3 is 9.5% by volume (Homebase)