First Nano Inhabitants Died-what Are My Next Steps?

[gigmeyer]

After 4 weeks of cycling a 24g Nano with 26 lb. live rock, I added 1 Banggai and 1 Tank Raised Clown to my tank last Friday night. I purchased these guys from Petco along with a small cleaner shrimp as Petco was selling cleaners for half the price of the LFS. I chose Petco as it was half the distance to my reliable LFS and thought clowns and cardinals were pretty much commoditys in the salt water fish trade.

After a one hour drip acclimation. I added the fish to my tank. The clown never seemed to adjust and died around Sunday noon. The Banggai did look fine and ate well on Saturday, but also died Sunday afternoon.

I've tested the water and all the parameters look good. My RedSea ammonia kit always shows trace amounts, but it matches the ammonia reading for freshly made seawater from RO, so I figured it is not a problem.

I went back to Petco and had them test my water and they said it was fine. I checked the tank these fish came from and it was empty except for a yellow watchman goby and some hermits. There were at least 2 clown carcasses being dragged around by large hermit crabs. I took a sample of the Petco water and SG was 1.018-1.019 (mine is 1.024-1.025) and Nitrates were present at about 40 PPM (possibly higher). All other parameters seemed to match mine.

My cleaner crew consists of 2 Turbo's, 6 Nerites, 6 Nassarius, 6 scarlet hermits, 1 blue legged hermit, 1 emerald crab, 1 Peppermint shrimp, 1 cleaner shrimp, and assorted hitchhikers. The cleaners have been in the tank anywhere from 1 to 3 weeks (except the cleaner shrimp) and all seem to be healthy and happy.

My general parameters are:

Ammonia ~0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Temp 75-78
SG 1.024
PH 8.3

The tank is a CurrentUSA AquaPod 24 with a 150W HQI Sunpod fixture. I run the MH light 7.5 hours a day and LED's on either end of the cycle for several hours. For filtration, I replaced the sponge and bioballs with fiberfloss (replaced weekly) and a mixture of SeaChem SeaGel and Boyd ChemiPure in a filter media bag. I have a Maxi-Jet 1200 running the filter and a separate MJ-600 and Hydor-Flo director to create as much reef quality water flow as possible.

While I've decided that Petco is not the place to buy fish, my question is whether I should be checking for other toxic chemicals/inhabitants in my tank or is it reasonable to have my LFS test my water and start again with one fish (clown or Banggai) from the LFS next week???

 

[sianeds]

little fishies

I think you just bought bad fish. I'm quite sure from what you've said that you're doing everything right so I'd go to a better shop and try again with better cared for fish

 

[gigmeyer]

Thanks for the quick reply. I think I can deal with the shame of being a fish murderer , but don't want to become a serial killer .

 

[sianeds]

Well we all have little disasters from time to time. I have lost 2 fish this week for completely different reasons, and even tho I've been keeping fish for my whole life I'm still hanging back a bit before putting new fish in as I don't want any more deaths either.

 

[SkiFletch]

Lesson learned: Petco stinks. I'd use stronger words but they would get blocked by the forum

Did you notice any spots, discolorations, or other external signs of ilness before they died?

 

[@ombomb]

I took a sample of the Petco water and SG was 1.018-1.019 (mine is 1.024-1.025)

That's a massive change in the space of an hour...

I think taking more time acclimatising the fish would help.

 

[gigmeyer]

lol to ski's comment. I was trying to be politically correct to Petco as well. Lesson learned! The Clown's fins were a little rough on the edges, but I didn't notice any signs of ich or parasites. Being a newbie to salt, I'm not sure what else to look for. Yet another reason to use the trusted LFS!

I didn't think to test the water from the fish store bag as part of any acclimating decision. I was hoping the water was within general recommended guidelines (1.022-1.026) and followed what I thought was a reasonable acclimating process of 1 hour drip followed by minimal lighting for at least 4 hours after introducing the fish to the tank. Another lesson learned perhaps?

Is testing the LFS water a common step in determining the amount of time to run a drip? Also, one question I have is in regulating temperature while acclimating fish. I don't see how to keep the temperature in a bucket the same as the tank temperature as it seems the room temp will have more impact on the bucket than the water from the drip. In general, the room is at 70 this time of year and the tank is 75 or higher. I can initially float the bag to get the temperatures to match to begin with, but expect a change to occur during the drip process. Is this a concern or does someone have a trick to keeping the temps in sync?

BTW...My drip procedure basically doubled the water volume over a one hour period. No doubt there was a significant change when the fish were added to the tank due to the pet store's water.

 

[SkiFletch]

Well, Petco tanks are renowed for bieng disease ridden and hyposalinic (low salinity/sg). This of course makes acclimation harder . If dripping is your only option, rest the bag in a styrofoam container, or wrap it in a blanket as you drip. Then once dripping is complete, float the bag in the tank to re-acclimate them temperature wise. Then, strain the fish through a net and dump the "acclimated" water into a bucket, NOT your tank. Never, ever dump LFS water into your tank, even a trusted one. Helps avoid possible contaminents. Obviously once you have the animal in the net, plop him in the tank.

As for your situation, I'd raise the temp to 80f and leave the tank fishless for 2-3 weeks at least, more if you can stand it. That'll give bacteria and parasites time to die for lack of a host. Sucks that you had to learn the hard way

 

[demonmagus]

how long would you normally acclimatise fish?


so sorry about the dead fish - it's never nice

 

[SkiFletch]

I do an hour

 

[steelhealr]

I don't think the fish died that quickly because they were from Petco. Sorry, but, 40 nitrates is a tad on the high side and COULD be the culprit. No fish was made to change from 1.018 to 1.025 in 1 hour.

Not only that...I don't think it is good fishkeeping practice to add TWO fish to a nano tank at once.

At this risk of sounding 'nasty'..which I am not...I thnk there are some basic rules of nano keeping being broken here.


Gigmeyer...slow down. One fish at a time...least aggressive first to most last.
Lower your nitrates before adding new additions. IMO, you shouldn't have added fish to a nano tank with a level of 40PPM nitrates. The water should have been changed first. Big difference between having fish in 0 nitrates and over 2 weeks climbing to 40, then taking home fish from 0 nitrates and plopping them in 40. Your water should have been ten or lower. If not....it wasn't ready for fish.

Beauty comes slowly, disaster comes quickly. SLOW DOWN. Become a 'water keeper', not a 'nano keeper'. You keep the water when you start one of these reefs.

SH

 

[blabadie]

I am going to have to disagree with you about PetCo. I think it just depends on what kind of people they hire to work there. Both of the PetCos in my town are great and I know that i can trust the fish/water, because I know the people that are taking care of the tanks. Obviously, every fish store is different, but it really boils down to who is taking care of the fish.

- b/lab -

 

[n3ont3tra]

Steelhealr -- They meant that the Petco water had nitrates of 40, I think.

 

[gigmeyer]

Steelhealr -- They meant that the Petco water had nitrates of 40, I think.

That's correct, the Petco water was high in nitrates and the Nano was 0. The 2 fish point was well taken though as my mantra has been to move slowly (I've managed to wait 4 weeks to add fish when others have started in as little as 4 days). I figured that since these two were on my list and were tankmates at Petco already, then it was a reasonable choice. Given the situation now, it will be one at a time! I assume going from 40 to 0 is just as stressful as going from 0 to 40. True?

My remaining question is whether to test LFS water and adjust acclimation period if they are significantly different. In this case, SG was Petco 1.018 and Nano 1.024. Nitrates were Petco 40+ and Nano 0. If I get lfs water this much out of whack, what would you suggest as an acclimation process? Also, is there a better process than the drip method? Ski mentioned that if dripping is my only choice then re-float the bag after the drip. I'm open to other suggestions, though I haven't stepped up to a quarantine tank.

I'm still debating whether to try a single fish this weekend. Not sure of the risk of parasites or bacteria at this time. While no Petco water was ever added to the Nano, certainly adding the fish themselves could have contaminated the tank even though they were removed promptly on expiration.

 

[@ombomb]

My remaining question is whether to test LFS water and adjust acclimation period if they are significantly different. In this case, SG was Petco 1.018 and Nano 1.024. Nitrates were Petco 40+ and Nano 0. If I get lfs water this much out of whack, what would you suggest as an acclimation process?

I'd suggest buying your fish somewhere else.

Alternatively, yes increase the time, I'd say at least 2 hours for that big a difference in water params, but the slower the better really.

I'm still debating whether to try a single fish this weekend. Not sure of the risk of parasites or bacteria at this time.

Wait.

Adding more fish now gives no time for your tank to recover. Think about the long term, not about getting fish in there quick...