Filters

[Mystil]

So what you are saying is Eheim are the best but you pay for that
Fluval are reasonable
and Tetratec are the cheapest?

 

[jgray152]

My Fluval 304 is going on 8 years of running. I recently cleaned out the impeller and impeller well and it runs brand new again.

Ehiems are the best but I have had no trouble with the Fluvals. I have a Rena Xp4 as well but I used it for a few months and removed it.

 

[Bastables]

I paid £59.99 for my Tetratec EX1200.

Anyway you can't compare one Eheim 2028 to two Tetratec EX1200's because that doesn't give the same amount of filtering power. Two Tetratec EX1200's have roughly the same filtering power as an Eheim 2080 (£230 on that website). In fact you can buy THREE Tetratec EX1200's (at £70 best price) for less than the cost of one Eheim 2080, and that is a much better safety margin.

I apologise for confusing your post with another persons

Compare like with like: Tetratec Ex 1200 is rated by manufacture for 500 l aquarium. 2028 is for 600 liters and 2217 is for 600 liters. 2028 contains 7.3 liters of filter volume for filling with bio/mec 2217 contains 6 liters of bio/mech space.

The 2080 is a monster filter that has 13.5 liters of bio/mec filtering for a aquarium of 1200 liters. Tetratec has yet to make a filter in the class of eheim's 2080 or classic 2250/60/62. By your argument you might as well buy 3 or two 2217's from eheim. Or maybe a dozen equvilent aqua one or jebo filters.

Even more interesting using 3 or 2 tetra's means using running 42 or 63 watts where as the 2080 runs at 30 watts. Your power bill is goign to cut quite a bit into any perceived savings.
The 600 liter 2217/2028 ehem filters are comparable to the tetra 1200 at 20 watts power draw. Use more filters run more power. There is no free lunch.

So what you are saying is Eheim are the best but you pay for that
Fluval are reasonable
and Tetratec are the cheapest?

They are not cheaper, the equivalent rated eheim 2217 is 60-70 pounds. Pretty much identical in price.

 

[rchambers]

The equivalent Eheim is the £129.99 pro 2 which is nearly twice the price. The Classics are missing media baskets and self priming.

Also the difference in running cost between two small filters and one big filter is tiny compared to running lights and heaters. I thought it was worth the extra money for the reliability? Two filters give more reliable filtering than one.

 

[Bastables]

The equivalent Eheim is the £129.99 pro 2 which is nearly twice the price. The Classics are missing media baskets and self priming.

Also the difference in running cost between two small filters and one big filter is tiny compared to running lights and heaters. I thought it was worth the extra money for the reliability? Two filters give more reliable filtering than one.

No two filters give redundancy not reliability nor longevity. classics have examples running 20 or so years ignoring rubber oring replacements. With your argument you might as well buy 6 or 12 aquaones or jebo's, after all one fails plug in another one. I relish that you now try to take the cake by stating price is no longer a factor if one can achieve reliability. Bit of back tracking when making claims of being able to buy two filters as opposed to one.

Priming features introduce another weak point into a canister as it is another set of rubber and seals that can give way the Eheim classics are still being sold and are still running for a reason, they are reliable. there are no other manufactures that continue to make their decades old product becase none of them ever produced anything near as reliable as the various versions of the "Classics." Hagen for instance do not continue to make the 03 which look like and were a direct competitor in the early 90's late 80s classics or 04 series because they had failure points. With the 03 series it included motor's burning out.

 

[rabbut]

Things were getting a little too heated for my liking, hence why I've speaped away for a while... This is a "which filter is best" thread though, so I guess it's kind of expected

I paid £59.99 for my Tetratec EX1200.

Anyway you can't compare one Eheim 2028 to two Tetratec EX1200's because that doesn't give the same amount of filtering power. Two Tetratec EX1200's have roughly the same filtering power as an Eheim 2080 (£230 on that website). In fact you can buy THREE Tetratec EX1200's (at £70 best price) for less than the cost of one Eheim 2080, and that is a much better safety margin.

I apologise for confusing your post with another persons

Compare like with like: Tetratec Ex 1200 is rated by manufacture for 500 l aquarium. 2028 is for 600 liters and 2217 is for 600 liters. 2028 contains 7.3 liters of filter volume for filling with bio/mec 2217 contains 6 liters of bio/mech space.

The 2080 is a monster filter that has 13.5 liters of bio/mec filtering for a aquarium of 1200 liters. Tetratec has yet to make a filter in the class of eheim's 2080 or classic 2250/60/62. By your argument you might as well buy 3 or two 2217's from eheim. Or maybe a dozen equvilent aqua one or jebo filters.

Ok, so the 2080 has more media than the EX1200, but it has a slower flow rate. IMO the two ballence each other out, and IMO Eheims rating for maximum tank size may work from an ammonia removal point of view, but I struggle to see how a flow of less than 1 times an hour in that tank would do a great deal of mechanical filtering. I'm sure the 1200 would remove the ammonia from a 1200l tank, but again it wouldn't remove solid waste. IMO the max each tank can efficiently (by my meaning of the word) filter the tank, is about the same.
I am going to say that IMO one EX1200 is equivilant to a 2080, tanking into account the flow rates, and media capacities of the filters. They should be equivilant, the 2080 has less flow, but has more media. These should ballence out, and the only difference I can see here is maintanance time. To me the 2080 would still need as much cleaning mind, as the dirt it would be harboring would raise disolved organics levels, when I am keeping fish that are sencitive to disolved organics...

Even more interesting using 3 or 2 tetra's means using running 42 or 63 watts where as the 2080 runs at 30 watts. Your power bill is goign to cut quite a bit into any perceived savings.
The 600 liter 2217/2028 ehem filters are comparable to the tetra 1200 at 20 watts power draw. Use more filters run more power. There is no free lunch.

Yes, electricity would cost more, but only marginaly with the ammount drawn. IME with Ehiem, I'd want to run two of the Ehiems, as I have found them unreliable (see previous post for details) and would need the extra redundant system for pice of mind. I'm more willing to trust Tetratec ATM, as the two failures of new Eheims in quick succession has left me with little faith in the brand...
I doubt the 600l rated Eheims are comparable, if the 2080's rating is anything to go by TBH, as they no doubt have less flow? Don't no that for sure, as I am unformiliar with them....

So what you are saying is Eheim are the best but you pay

for that
Fluval are reasonable
and Tetratec are the cheapest?

They are not cheaper, the equivalent rated eheim 2217 is 60-70 pounds. Pretty much identical in price.

Fluval have a questionable reliability in some peoples eyes, as do Ehiem in mine. They are supposed the best, and yes you pay for it with truly equivilant gear, when IMO they aren't worth it. These are just my opinions on Ehiem, and how you can respect them, though I know some un-names Eheim supportes will not.
Tetratec are the unknown brand ATM. I trust them form what I have seen and heard, but they have no track record to fall back on in this market, only the reputation of their other equipment, which is A1
Eheim are more expencive for what I judge to be equivilant gear, and mot will struggle to change my view on what is equivilant, though all are free to try

Rabbut

P.S. I appologise if my spelling/grammar isn't good, I didn't proof read

 

[T1KARMANN]

flow rate means nothing its all about the amount of media and the contact time the water has with it

the tetratec 1200 is not even in the same class as the eheim 2080

lets be fair hear its ok to compair the tetra 1200 with a pro2 or a eheim classic but with a 2080 you are joking it wipes the floor with the tetratec 1200 or any other canister filter on the market

 

[rabbut]

flow rate means nothing its all about the amount of media and the contact time the water has with it

the tetratec 1200 is not even in the same class as the eheim 2080

lets be fair hear its ok to compair the tetra 1200 with a pro2 or a eheim classic but with a 2080 you are joking it wipes the floor with the tetratec 1200 or any other canister filter on the market

I'm not deniying that it will be more effective at removing chemical waste, but my argument is that it won't act mechanicaly very well in a tank anywhere near the size it is recomended for, as it won't kick up enough current to hold those particles in suspencion, let alone remove them. I play with messy fish, so mechanical filtration is fairly important to me, hence my concern for efficient mechanical filtering. Bio-filter wise, the 2080 is better, but overall, the EX1200 is IMO better all round as it is designed to mechanicaly filter also, which the 2080 doesn't appear to be, given the size it is recomended for and the media I've seen it supplied with. Again, just my opinion

Regards
Rabbut

 

[SJ2K]

Still going ey? Thought we decided, get what you can afford

 

[jgray152]

flow rate means nothing its all about the amount of media and the contact time the water has with it

Maybe in a wet/dry setup where you can have 3 times as much media compaired to a canister filter. In a canister filter the contact time for 1 foot of water column can be less then 5-10 seconds. This can be extended if you reduce the flow but then you may not get the turn over that is needed for your tank.

 

[Bastables]

Yes, electricity would cost more, but only marginaly with the ammount drawn. IME with Ehiem, I'd want to run two of the Ehiems, as I have found them unreliable (see previous post for details) and would need the extra redundant system for pice of mind. I'm more willing to trust Tetratec ATM, as the two failures of new Eheims in quick succession has left me with little faith in the brand...
I doubt the 600l rated Eheims are comparable, if the 2080's rating is anything to go by TBH, as they no doubt have less flow? Don't no that for sure, as I am unformiliar with them....



P.S. I appologise if my spelling/grammar isn't good, I didn't proof read

Not quite Tetratec 1200 has 200 liters more flow than the eheim 2217 and 2028 But the Del hd is lower. So in real world use ie with media the eheim's will push/pull more water through media.

Del.head approx Hmax
Tetratec ex 1200 : 1.8m
eheim 2217: 2.3 m
eheim 2028: 2m

eheim 2080: 2.6m

The del head amount is how far it will push water up vertically ie how much torque it has how much ability it has to push water through media and dirty media. That's why you have pictures of dirty 2217 still pushing water a couple of feet over the aquarium. Eheim will have a longer cleaning interval because of the motor's torque maintains the flow for longer. Telling is that eheim give figures in their pro insturctions also for flow with media but Tetra don't.

A single tetra 1200 is superiour to a eheim 2080 in mechanical filtration......... this opinion is just asnine. please provide proof as just by going from del hd and flow rates the 1200 is inferior never mind 4 liters of media vurses eheim 2080's 13l.

1200 1200l flow
2080 1700l flow
Watts use is not minimal as the filters are on (execpt cleaning) 24 hrs everyday of the year.

 

[Bastables]

flow rate means nothing its all about the amount of media and the contact time the water has with it

the tetratec 1200 is not even in the same class as the eheim 2080

lets be fair hear its ok to compair the tetra 1200 with a pro2 or a eheim classic but with a 2080 you are joking it wipes the floor with the tetratec 1200 or any other canister filter on the market

the EX1200 is IMO better all round as it is designed to mechanicaly filter also, which the 2080 doesn't appear to be, given the size it is recomended for and the media I've seen it supplied with. Again, just my opinion

Regards
Rabbut

Based on media...... look up the media configs of the 2028 [URL="http/www.eheim.de/eheim/pdf/en/anleitung...6_2028_2128.pdf"]http/www.eheim.de/eheim/pdf/en/anleitung...6_2028_2128.pdf[/URL]

2080 [URL="http/www.eheim.de/eheim/pdf/en/anleitung...ionel3_2080.pdf"]http/www.eheim.de/eheim/pdf/en/anleitung...ionel3_2080.pdf[/URL]



then the 1200 [URL="http/www2.tetra.de/doc/doc_download.cfm?...amp;o_lang_id=2"]http/www2.tetra.de/doc/doc_download.cfm?...amp;o_lang_id=2[/URL]

So besides tetra issuing you with inferior bio media in the form of foam and plastic bio balls versus eheim using sinctred glass, the setups are the same. You have clay pipes then foam then bio media, (tetra then has carbon pads as well) then fine floss for polishing. The eheim 2080 instead has foam in a pre-filter tray, clay pipes, biomedia then polishing pad. But your argument is due to some voodoo shenanigans (much like the 10 pound figure) that the 1200 is superior for mechanical filtration inspite of having a identical media setup, less motor torque, and less filter media space.

Here's discussion of tests done on eheim classics that show no diffrence in flow with or without media http/www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipmen...erformance.html

note here JBL's filters who like eheim state flow rates with media "Note on capacity per hour: The litre capacity stated on the identification plate refers to the pump running without hoses etc. When operating with filter material and hoses, the capacity is reduced by about 30 - 50 % of the levels started above. The times for 1 l water are: CP 120 approx. 300 l/h; CP 250 approx. 360 l/h; CP 500 approx. 850 l/h." their cp500 has identical specs with the tetra 1200 1200l flow at motor and 1.8m del hd. Diffrence in preformance between the classic and JBL filters is lack of baskets and higher del HD.

One wonders if you have in fact every used a eheim canister at all as the media setup until the pro 3 series has been identical even in the classics. I am astounded that "opinion" is used a proud badge to cover that you are at the very least ill informed and at worse have a agenda

 

[rabbut]

One wonders if you have in fact every used a eheim canister

I know what I have used. If you don't belive me, fair enough, I'm not going to make you, neither am I going to argue the point with you....

I am astounded that "opinion" is used a proud badge to cover that you are at the very least ill informed and at worse have a agenda

The tearm stones and glass houses springs to mind.... The style of your posting often makes me wonder the same....

Back on topic now

I based my assumption on mechanical filtering capacity on the maximum size tank each filer is rated for, re EX1200 and 2080.

Near same flow rate, but the 2080 being rated for a tank twice the size. I don't dispute that the 2080 has the mechanical media there, but it is useless if the dirt doesn't find its way into the filter. To find its way into the filterm the dirt needs to be in suspension, and that requires flow in the display tank. With less than 1 time an hour turn-over rate in the 2080's maximum tank rateing, I dooubt flow would be suffic to hold dirt in suspension long enough to make it into the filter....mebe this is the caurse of the reduced cleaning interals???

I doubt that there is no flow reduction in the Ehiems when the media is added, regardless of how much torque the motor has. Is the rating realy for a filter which does not contain media? It is interesting to note that none of your manufactures links are working, so at this point I can't realy coment on them. Please fix them

Is reduced cleaning intervals always a good thing. Suppose you have fish tank don't like disolved organics? Surely not having a clean for a longer length of time will lead to a build-up of these?

No to play devils advocate again Re £10-15 production costs. I have already stated that I cannot verify the cost of producing any filter, as these are the types of things that businesses keep to themselves. Perhapse you can disprove me, but finding a source indicating production cost I doubt you will be able to, so we are going to need to make a reasonable guess as to how the costs stack up. I think my estimate is realistic considering the factors. Isn't it interesting that people always quote me on the lower of my estimates, rather than the full range that I give Just a point

Eagerly awaiting your reply
Rabbut

 

[T1KARMANN]

flow rate means nothing its all about the amount of media and the contact time the water has with it

Maybe in a wet/dry setup where you can have 3 times as much media compaired to a canister filter. In a canister filter the contact time for 1 foot of water column can be less then 5-10 seconds. This can be extended if you reduce the flow but then you may not get the turn over that is needed for your tank.

I have more media than most wet/drys in my canister set up i would need a 6ft sump to get more mdia in

2 x eheim 2080s 13l media each total = 26l media
2 x eheim 2078s 8l media each total = 16l media

mdia grand total = 42l

i have not even added my sand filter 2 x internal eheim 2252s or my nitrate reactor

total turn over

2 x eheim pro3 2080s 1700 lph each = 3400 lph
2 x eheim pro3e 2078x 1850 lph each = 3700 lph
2 x eheim internal filters 2252s 1200 lph each = 2400 lph

grand total turn over = 9500 lph

tank size 1400l so im turning over my tank 8 x ph with 42l of media

do you think that tank is filtered well enought

 

[Rooster]

As Harry Hill says..... "Theres only one way to sort this.....

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT"