Feeling Frustrated

[Aquascaper]

I think you added too many fish all at once, that is why you got ich from the fish being stressed and ammonia spike

With respect i don't think that is the issue here. The fish would not have been unduly affected by an ammonia spike of 0.5ppm and the number of fish wouldn't have caused a problem. IMO opinion it was just a simple breakout of Ich possibly caused during transport from the LFS or wherever you got them. Unfortunately its highly contagious and sounds like it has spread through your tank quickly.

My advice would be to hang in there and treat the Ich as best you can and hope that the majority survive it. Maybe increase the tank temperature as much as you can safely do, this will shorten the life-cycle of the Ich and make them drop off the fish faster so they can be killed.

Good luck

 

[karrihug]

it sounds like things are getting better. you are doing a good job. finish the ick treatment, and if the danios are still red in the gills you might try some melafix. i would stay away from the maracyn, it can kill your beneficial bacteria. also, how did you aclimate your fish? the problem could have started from stress from a mild ph shock. i always check my ph and the ph in the lfs water in the bag. if it is not the same then i take extra time to add a little water at a time to get them used to the ph level. i have been very successful with this method.

 

[luxum]

If you are talking about your 75 gallon I think you added too many fish all at once, that is why you got ich from the fish being stressed and ammonia spike. I was always taught to SLOWLY add fish to a newly cycled tank.

That's good advice for cycling with fish. However, he had pre-cycled his tank by adding ammonia, it could accomodate a full load. In fact, if he hadn't added a full load, most of the bacteria he had just painstakingly cultivated would have died off without sufficient bioload to sustain the colony size. The only thing he did wrong was not establishing the bacteria which convert organic waste to ammonia, hence the small ammonia reading which is now gone. That small bit of ammonia is unlikely to have been the cause of his outbreak, it's much more likely it was the stress of the move and acclimation combined with stock that wasn't completely healthy. How's it going now, njnauticalnut?

By the way, you asked about signs of fish TB earlier - that ulcerated spot on the gourami you mentioned is a strong indicator. The problem with fish TB is that it has many symptoms and shares those symptoms with other diseases. It is impossible to be sure without expensive lab work, however it is known to be common in farmed dwarf gouramis and in rainbowfish. You should take precautions with this tank since fish TB can pass to humans. Don't let any of the water get in your mouth when siphoning, and you may want to wear gloves when putting your hands in the tank. Don't move fish from this tank into any new tanks you set up, you'll risk infecting your new tank as well if the gourami does indeed have TB.

 

[njnauticalnut]

Thanks for the futher discussion.

I acclimated the fish to the tank in the usual manner, floated the bags for 15 minutes, added some water from the tank, floated for another 15-20 minutes and then I added them into the new tank, no water from the lfs got into the tank or at least just a very very very minimal amount.

I am still seeing signs of ich. I am going to switch from the CopperSafe to the Rid-Ich med as the CopperSafe is not doing the job. I am going to use carbon to get the CopperSafe out and then do a water change before I add the Rid-Ich. I read another thread where someone said that Rid-Ich, well the ingredients in it, was the only med that got rid of the ich in their tank.

The powder blue dwarf gourami with the "spot" (not ich) died. Maybe it was TB. I do not siphon using my mouth so will not get water in my mouth (yuck!) and though I have not put gloves on when I put my hands in the tank, I do wash them immediately and thoroughly when I am through. The other gouramis are doing okay. I have a pregnant black molly with ich spots which is not good!

If the gourami had TB, will all of the fish get it? Is there any treatment for it? I am hoping that it was an internal parasite and what I saw was a gill fluke.

Once the ich treatment is complete, I will add some MelaFix for the danios as a couple fo them still have red gills, but are acting fine.

Thanks for all of your advice and suggestions.

Oh and luxum, I am a she not he.

 

[luxum]

Oh and luxum, I am a she not he.

) Apologies!

I have used a combination of elevated temperature, several courses of Maracide, and water changes between courses to get rid of ick. It didn't effect by bio filter or plants, but it was pricey and i had to buy several bottles.

Regarding TB, there is no way to know for sure, and yes, if it was introduced to your tank, it's still there. Some fish are more susceptible than others, so they may not show overt symptoms. Then again, it may not have been TB at all! My best advice is to read up on the symptoms and observe that tank for several months before you decide to add any new fish to the tank.

 

[njnauticalnut]

> Oh, and luxum, I am a she not he.
> *) Apologies!

For some reason I think because of my id njnauticalnut, folks always think I am a he! No big deal, just thought I'd fill you in for future reference!

> I have used a combination of elevated temperature, several courses of
> Maracide, and water changes between courses to get rid of ick. It didn't
> effect by bio filter or plants, but it was pricey and i had to buy several bottles.

I did not get a chance last night to change over to the new medication so before I do, I will check out Maracide. I figure if someone has a proven record of it working, that is a good sign. I know that the meds can get pricey, but we'll manage, only the best for our pets!

> Regarding TB, there is no way to know for sure, and yes, if it was
> introduced to your tank, it's still there. Some fish are more susceptible
> than others, so they may not show overt symptoms. Then again, it
> may not have been TB at all! My best advice is to read up on
> the symptoms and observe that tank for several months before you
> decide to add any new fish to the tank.

Thanks for the info. I have been keeping a close eye on it. I will read more on the subject as you suggest and see if I can figure out what happened and if there are any other prevalent signs of TB in the tank. So far, I have not noticed anything unusual, except for the ich which has visibly only affected a couple of fish. The black molly who was the fish most visibly affected no longer has very many spots on her. Maybe the CopperSafe is working as well. I noticed that my gravel has been getting a brownish tint to it, wonder if that is from the CopperSafe as it never got this before. A good vaccuuming cleaned it up, but it has come back. There is so much trial and error when disease strikes! I have only been keeping fish for the last 3 years and have, fortunately, not had a lot of disease so I feel very incompetent when making diagnoses.

Again thanks for your help.

 

[luxum]

Heehee, people tend to mistake my internet handle for a guy's as well, i feel your pain!

The Maracide is probably not the most effective brand on the market, but i have a lot of $$$ invested in my plants and wanted something that specifically said it was safe for them. And i hate ruining my biofilter! Coppersafe ought to work too, i don't know if i would switch medications at this point unless there was a good reason for it, like if something you have is sensitive to copper.

Regarding the TB, the symptom that brought that to mind was the sores on the gourami, but it could have been caused by something else. That's the sort of thing usually attributed to it, but the ick is a completely separate problem. Good luck, keep us posted.

 

[njnauticalnut]

> Coppersafe ought to work too, i don't know if i would switch
> medications at this point unless there was a good reason for
> it, like if something you have is sensitive to copper.

No one is sensitive to the CopperSafe and it may be working as the female black molly has hardly any white spots on her anymore, however, the male black molly looks like he just got one! I guess I'll stay with this med for the month as no other fish are displaying any whites spots.

> Regarding the TB, the symptom that brought that to mind was
> the sores on the gourami, but it could have been caused by
> something else.

It never looked like a sore as it was not at all red. It was more of a slit in the gill with something white coming out of it. I thought maybe it was a gill fluke. I will continue keeping an eye on the tank.

Thanks!

 

[luxum]

Ah, i see. I think in your first post you called it a "sore." If it was as you describe now, it's not TB. Glad to hear they are improving.