F-1 Angel... I'm a bit nervous... it'll be my 1st F-1 fish...

[Magnum Man]

it'll be pictured in my 45 gallon thread... I've contacted the seller, and asked about the water conditions it was raised in, & what they are currently feeding it... anything else I should know or do... it's not wild... but assume they are maybe more picky, than something that's 3-4 generations bred in a tank???
I've had & have several wild caught fish... should I be nervous with the Angels???

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Sounds to me like you're on the right track. Wild-caught and F-1 fish need the same as any other fish, just more so. Get the GH, pH, and temperature similar to what it was raised in, give it nutritious food that it will recognize as such (F1s tend to be easier than wilds on this, in my limited experience), give them plenty of space, appropriate decor, and clean water and they'll likely be fine.

 

[Colin_T]

Freshwater angelfish can carry a virus that wipes them all out really fast. There's no cure for it and most breeders will keep new fish away from healthy established stock for at least a few months. It used to be common on wild caught Pterophyllum altum but that was over 10 years ago. I'm not sure has happened to it lately.

 

[Magnum Man]

thanks for trying to freak me out... pretty spendy fish...

Altum Angelfish (F1 Tank Raised) - Discus Madness

LIVE FISH SHIPPING COSTS GO BY ZONE Click Here To Find Your Zone T282

www.discusmadness.com

 

[Magnum Man]

Their reply to my email...

"
They have been raised in pretty neutral waters, Ph 7-7.2 .. water hardness between 100-200ppm, high 70s temp

We normally feed them Granules, flakes, blackworms and some frozen food on occasion..



R/o would be great for them (or any fish really) as you will make the water the same consistantly, which is what they love the most



We are packing your box as we speak, tracking should have already arrived to you"

 

[GaryE]

I believe the wild years of the angel virus have passed. For a few years, you could barely find any domestic angels, and a few strains that were once common seem uncommon since then. But that was 10 years ago,or maybe more. Time flies when you're having fun but also getting old...

F-1 scalare will be like any other scalare, except not inbred. They should be healthier and tougher, but a lot depends on how they were bred and raised.

One lone angel? Be watchful if you are combining it with domestic angels - hobby angels are regular typhoid marys when they meet breeder fish or wilds. Store angels have survived the diseases of the world through contact on farms, and those sheltered, well raised or wild fish have no defences. Proceed carefully - I never mix farmed and wild or breeder produced fish. When I have, ouch.

 

[Magnum Man]

well I did end up with wild caught, & farm raised fish with my African Tetra tank ( I'm sure the Common Congo Tetras were farm raised ) but suspect that Dan's who sold me the bulk of the WC African Tetras, treated them for everything but the kitchen sink, before selling them... I am nervous about the pet store angel, & the F-1... the platinum came from this same seller, & they are one of the better ones I've used... but because the tank wasn't established, the 2nd Angel went right into the tank as well ( really against my better judgement ) so that is the biggest wild card...

 

[Back in the fold]

well I did end up with wild caught, & farm raised fish with my African Tetra tank ( I'm sure the Common Congo Tetras were farm raised ) but suspect that Dan's who sold me the bulk of the WC African Tetras, treated them for everything but the kitchen sink, before selling them... I am nervous about the pet store angel, & the F-1... the platinum came from this same seller, & they are one of the better ones I've used... but because the tank wasn't established, the 2nd Angel went right into the tank as well ( really against my better judgement ) so that is the biggest wild card...

You seem to have an unlimited budget for aquarium fish . Doesn’t SWMBO ever look at the checkbook ?

 

[Magnum Man]

she gets the check book... I'm a cash guy... & it's not really unlimited funds, lots of hobbies & expenses... now that summer is coming, lots of farm projects will be calling for dollars, so... I'll still be changing water & feeding fish, but maintenance & expenses will be much less over the summer

 

[gwand]

Does F1 mean the parents were wild?

 

[Ceez]

Does F1 mean the parents were wild?

Yes

 

[Colin_T]

Their reply to my email...

"
They have been raised in pretty neutral waters, Ph 7-7.2 .. water hardness between 100-200ppm, high 70s temp

We normally feed them Granules, flakes, blackworms and some frozen food on occasion..

R/o would be great for them (or any fish really) as you will make the water the same consistantly, which is what they love the most

We are packing your box as we speak, tracking should have already arrived to you"

Can you ask them what water they used to breed the fish in?
If they respond by saying they bred wild angelfish in water with a pH of 7.2 and a GH 100-200ppm, I would be concerned. Wild angelfish will not normally breed in water with a GH above 50ppm and if their water is 100ppm+, that sounds odd. They might be breeding them in soft acidic water (GH below 50ppm, pH below 7.0) and rearing the fry in harder water, but the fry will do best in soft water because they are pretty much wild caught from a genetic stand point.

 

[Magnum Man]

I don’t think they actually bred the fish themselves, I was just trying to match conditions they were in currently

 

[TwoTankAmin]

When it comes to wild angels the most important consideration can be the pH of the water from where they come. I have kept Altums for some time and there is a reason there can be disease issues when they are wild caught.

Altums live in very acid water. I had to have a tank at pH 4.2 and TDS under 30 ppm to received them which is similar to the parameters in which they were caught.

Many bacteria cannot live in very acid water. This includes a number of the pathogens which are common in tanks and to which most fish have an immune system able to fight off the pathogens. But in the acid water where altums are found many of those pathogens are not. The result is the fish do not have well developed defenses against these things. So, trying to put them into an established set-up is usually a death sentence.

It took me a few tries to keep wild Altums alive past about 60 days and often 30 was a milestone, To succeed i had to set up a brand new tank, Nothing in it came out of any of my other tanks. And i bought a small UV unit which I ran on the tank for a couple of weeks before the fish arrived and them for some time after the fish went in. Despite that I managed to lose the last wild group after about a year to wasting disease.

The Altums I now have are tank raised. They were shipped to me from Discus madness. I am familiar with the gent who spawned them and who advised him to make his success possible. I also know he has the discus people do his selling as he is not set-up to do it. I got some of his fish from them but they did not last. I got Atabapo river angels he had spawned. I am not sure how the discuss folks cared for them but they were not that healthy.

The only other angels I wanted to keep, and which I did so, were double dark blacks. I got a pair formed from 6 with which I started and then spawns. They laid over 500 eggs their first try and then did it again a few weeks later. That was when I knew I did not want to breed angels.

The ones I got were from a different rivers and were larger. I took them as partial payment for plecos I was selling. That was about 3-4 years ago and the Altums are big and healthy and about to be sold.

edited to fix typos

 

[Magnum Man]

F-1 arrived yesterday, looks pretty good, was eating after being in the tank a couple hours… it’s been hanging with the pet store mutt, and is about 2/3 the size of the pet store angel, and is about 2/3 bigger than my smaller platinum angel… no territorial issues, but the platinum angel isn’t hanging with the other 2, but being 1st in the tank, it stayed down on the bottom, with the other fish, whereas the other 2 angels are in the top 1/3 of the tank ( a 45 gallon tall… 24 inches high )

We also got 5 baby albino Cory’s from that seller… Mrs favorite fish… they look great, with the black sand bottom, and integrated well, with the 2 adult albino Cory’s I’ve had for more than a year, and survived my previously bad water, and non sand bottom previous tanks… those two seem to be growing their barbels back, and look happy to have a group again…

Both came from Discus Madness… I’m really happy with them, as a seller and shipper