euthansia

bumble

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:sad: :no: :( One of my baby (4 months old) Oscars has developed a horrific fungal infection which has not responded to any treatments has developed a secondary infection of the swim bladder and is now dying, and appears to be suffering badly. I know that the only thing i can do to reduce his suffering is to put him to sleep. But I've never done this before. Can anybody please give me some advice as to how i should do this in the kindest way possible?
 
IF U HAVENT DONE IT YET THAN THE EASIEST WAY IS TO FEED HIM TO SOMTHING OR PT IT IN THE FREEZER FOR A FEW MINUTES
 
ChiclidBoy
you should give your fish to a shop you make me feel sick
how can you say that its barbaric sickning you made me feel ill

Unacceptable methods of Euthanasia
1. – Flushing a fish down the lavatory
2. – Removing them from the water until death occurs
3. – Plunging them in either boiling or freezing water
4. – Freezing them to death, this method causes pain and immense stress.
– Knocking them unconscious without destroying their brain.

YOU DO NOT FREEZE FISH OR FEED THEM TO ANOTHER WILE DIEING

4. – Freezing them to death, this method causes pain and immense stress
4. – Freezing them to death, this method causes pain and immense stress
4. – Freezing them to death, this method causes pain and immense stress
4. – Freezing them to death, this method causes pain and immense stress
4. – Freezing them to death, this method causes pain and immense stress
4. – Freezing them to death, this method causes pain and immense stress
 
Ok guys settle down, take a deep breath and let's try to help each other. ;)

If you disagree with cichlidboy and want to try and teach him the way you think is correct, then you need to be civilized and explain your opinion. Attacking someone won't be allowed here.


IMO, cichlidboy isn't too far off from what I always used to hear.
For more years than I care to remember I've always heard it's best to put the fish in the freezer to euthanize as it's the best for the fish. I've even given some dieing fish to my cichlids for food. This isn't too far off what others think also and he's not alone nor are you in your opinion. :)

The great thing of the aqua world is that there is never really no hard and fast rules except when it comes to water quality.

As many times as someone says freezing is bad someone can come up with articles that says it isn't. Both the bad about freezing and good about freezing are by scientists, so even they can't agree. :(

I'm not saying one way or the other which to do/not do, just asking for a polite discussion so we can all help each other learn and decide for ourselves what we take from each discussion.
 
i didnt mean it as a direct attack well kind of just it really upset me reading that

1 thing as he said he works in a fish store it shocked me even more
he works with fish im sure he said ...but gave 1 of the most worst pieces of advice in my OHO own honest opnion

to wot you sad about even scientist even argue
any person can argue about any thing ..if they have a good enough reason
the people that most likly say its fine are the 1s not really learning abut it
like dying fish some say its perfectly fine SOME SAY NOT
but in my oho its not fine atall (can be argued it is) or it would be illegal
wot about the fish thats man made 2 diffrent fish ..that the craized fish farm owner took the eggs mixed the sperm ...these my oho are ugly fish also that shouldnt be breed (but its not illegal and they can be bought

i even have just emaild a usa company telling them how i feel about there comapny and hope it goes bust for selling dyed fwishys

but chiclidboy im sorry for being rude maybe this is what you thought been told and im sorry for being rude and THE WAY I ACTED it was inapropriat :thumbs:

and to the feeding fish your dieing fish isnt it comon sence that ITS WRONG thats an animal dieing but ALVIEwith feelings and if yoiu take it from its home river sea water ever your responsable for the pain caused to your fish BUT THIS IS MY OWN OPINION you may disagree

or maybe its just me i care for my pets more and wouldntfeed a fish 1 of my others ide put in sep tank wait till died an burry it
 
i didnt mean it as a direct attack well kind of just it really upset me reading that
I understand that and thank you very much for being polite enough to further elaborate. It's hard to see someone say something that is totally different than what we believe. I do understand that. I see it everyday. :)

1 thing as he said he works in a fish store it shocked me even more
he works with fish im sure he said ...but gave 1 of the most worst pieces of advice in my OHO own honest opnion

I understand but the key words here are in my OHO. We all have differing opinions. When someone is attacked they immediately tune out. IMO, give your opinion as to why you believe what you do in a non-offensive way. You don't have to even be right, if it's your feeling then that's your opinion and you have every right to share it, but do so nicely so we can all keep a dialogue going and learn from each other. :)

dying fish some say its perfectly fine SOME SAY NOT
but we all know its not fine atall (can be argued it is) or it would be illegal
My point exactly. I hate the thought of dying fish. Hate it more than anyone as I know what they go through. It sickens me but I would never go off on someone that bought a dyed fish if they didn't know that tho. If they came in here knowing what they go thru and brag about it saying they don't care...then that's another story.

wot about the fish thats man made 2 diffrent fish ..that the craized fish farm owner took the eggs mixed the sperm ...these my oho are ugly fish also that shouldnt be breed (but its not illegal and they can be bought

I agree. It should never ever happen no matter what. I hate the fact that man "makes" a hybrid. I have a hybrid. I have a cheap knockoff called a Flowerhorn. This is the meanest part of a trimac and a Midas. I don't like it at all that this is happening. I will never ever let any fish of mine go into the public. Whatever happens stays in my tank as I'm only for the true cichlid. I bought it because there was such a fervor for them. Am I right in doing so? IMO, no! I just needed to know what was going on with these fish and I bit into the stigma. But I love this fish now that I have it and have grown it into maturity. I will never ever let it breed and if he does I'll keep it within my own household.

The people that are so worried about hybrids (and I agree with them that we all should be) what about ---

red devils / midas
guppies
angels
discus
molly's
mixed zebras

All of the above are the same type of hybrid as a flowerhorn but I don't see anyone complaining about them?

There's a difference between a hybrid and a monstrosity like the red blood parrot, but again, this is jmo. Like everything else is.

and to the feeding fish your dieing fish isnt it comon sence that ITS WRONG thats an animal dieing but ALVIEwith feelings and if yoiu take it from its home river sea water ever your responsable for the pain caused to your fish
This is just your opinion tho. It's perfectly fine that you have this opinion and just as great as you share it, but others might feel differently and we just have to realize that that's fine also. If you don't agree with him, then you should explain why you feel so instead of attacking him. Others reading your posts in the future might be pursuaded by your thoughts even if just one person isn't if it's done in the correct manner. :)

or maybe its just me i care for my pets more and wouldntfeed a fish 1 of my others ide put in sep tank wait till died an burry it

Again, this is your way and not the only way. I'm not saying this is right or wrong. I'm just trying to be neutral here and keep an intelligent diologue going so we can all learn. :)

If someone says to me personally, smb, what do you think? Then I'll say but I just want to try and keep the peace otherwise, so please don't think I'm taking sides.

I think it shows how great of a person you are to post what you did in your last post. I mean that and I thank you very much. :)

We'll get thru this and you'll definately get your word out. Hang in there. ;)
 
I actually find this subject really interesting - interesting enough to spend the last couple of hours researching it. As smb said, for years, I've heard that putting a fish into the freezer in water is the preferred method for most hobbyists. When I first joined this forum, I read Dragonslair's pinned article about euthanasia, and was curious about his statement that freezing them in this way causes immense pain and stress. Furthermore, I was somewhat disheartened by the advice given there, because I'm POSITIVE that I'm not the only dedicated fish owner who would NEVER have the heart to decapitate or bludgeon my fish to death. I couldn't even bring myself to decapitate a live caterpillar, let alone one of my beloved fish. I'm not saying it's not the best way to euthanize, just not reasonable for a lot of people.

This is what I learned in my research. Firstly, as Dragonslair stated at the beginning of his pinned article, his advice is from the perspective of an ichthyologist. Anaesthetic in lethal doses is the most commonly used method, followed by decapitation and pithing (stabbing the brain). However, no less than three of the sites/books I've just read stated that the anaesthetic method was not reasonable for the hobbyist, as the only approved drug for the purpose of euthanizing fish is not available to the public (*note* I don't know if that is in the US or the UK, assuming it was the U.S. ), and the decapitation method was recommended AGAINST for the average hobbyist, as it is possible, and in some cases likely, that it could be done incorrectly. Furthermore, it was recognized that many hobbyists would not be comfortable with doing so. The other method discussed was putting the fish into a plastic bag and smashing them against a hard surface. Again - not for the weak of heart/stomach.

Some sources recommend putting alka seltzer tablets into a cup/bowl of tank water with the fish. They suffocate from the CO2. Another frequently recommended method is to put the fish into a cup of grain alcohol (vodka, gin, tequila) or alcohol mixed with tank water. I don't think I could do either of those things.

Almost every single source I found (save for one) recommended the freezer method. The thing is, you don't put a guppy in a teaspoon of water in the freezer, or an oscar in 2 cups of water. You'd put a guppy in at least a litre of water and an oscar in at least a gallon (preferably two). The smaller the container, the faster it will freeze. If the container is large enough, the temperature will drop slowly enough that the fish's metabolism slowly shuts down until they're permanently sleeping, so to speak. I'm not a fish who's ever been frozen to death, so I can't say for sure if it works, but it sounds reasonable to me.

Here's the thing. Obviously, decapitation/pithing is faster, but as I've already stated, there is a ZERO percent chance that I could bring myself to do such a thing. That decided, what is better, to leave the fish in the tank to suffer for perhaps days or weeks, or to put it into the freezer where it MAY suffer for the next half hour or so, but is definitely dead at the end of that time, with no Jeffrey Dahmer-esque nightmares for the fish owner?

As always, just my two cents worth :thumbs:
 
very well said aqua and thanks for putting all reasons why
and i DO AGREE WITH SUM OF WHAT YOU SAY

Furthermore, I was somewhat disheartened by the advice given there, because I'm POSITIVE that I'm not the only dedicated fish owner who would NEVER have the heart to decapitate or bludgeon my fish to death

i COULD NEVER CUT FISH HEAD OFF which is why i would most likly ask my lfs to do it for me or ask the vets what they surgest

but i still disagree and well im sure give me 30 mins on the net i could put my point why but as said this can be argued nodoubt if the ppl have good enough reasons for what they say ]]

in interest you said you also thought that you should freeze it whotold you this infomation

did you read it onle when starting up shop tell you ?

because being new to the hobby i could say that dying fish IS FINE
and mix breeding IS fine
but in my oho i think every 1 knows this isnt right it cuases PAIN strees
and when getting them home becus woth they been thru they lose they color so its pointless in the 1st place they aslo get deformed would you want 1 to breed ?

the reason i say this is beacuse from 1 week of searching ive found many places that sell dyed fish and from that could think its not illegal it must be FINE

now also did you notice you said you did it and i assume you thought it was right
(but only just properly looked it up spent time on the sublect )
why now and not befor i know allmost all things i need to know within 1 week

i started a very big good debate on chloramine got even out my league i cannot comment on it any more bcus i dont even understand it lol

all im saying is ppl should find out the WRONGS AND RIGHT befor they start somthing so when somthing is it does happen you have both understandings of it allready the rong and right
and YOUR OWN OPINION

ide rather 30 mins pain then maybe days weeks

ide rather no pain at all WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE FROZEN TO DEATH
i wouldnt heard its extreamly pain full starts by freezing your lungs when breathing so slows the heart down slowy causing imence pain the brain then starts to freeze creating 1 unbarable headach pain untill you die

i wouldnt like that so wouldnt cause my fish it either moho

i remember a saying MY MUM TOLD ME DONT DO TO OTHERS WHAT YOU WOULDNT LIKE YOURSELF (animals or humans)
 
. Anaesthetic in lethal doses is the most commonly used method, followed by decapitation and pithing (stabbing the brain). However, no less than three of the sites/books I've just read stated that the anaesthetic method was not reasonable for the hobbyist, as the only approved drug for the purpose of euthanizing fish is not available to the public (*note* I don't know if that is in the US or the UK, assuming it was the U.S. ),

Has anyone tried Clove Oil? It is used as a sedative for moving Koi out of their ponds for winter, also recomended for use in trimming puffers teeth. In larger doses it would be leathal to the fish, they would go to sleep and not wake up.
 
There were two bits of advice that cichlidboy gave and it's suprises me that there were no comments whatsoever on the second........................

To feed his dying oscar to another fish!!!!!

Cichlidboy would you really feed a fish that is dying from a severe fungal infection along with a secondary bacterial infection to another fish???

Good way to systematically wipe out your fish.

Come on cichlidboy, you work in a shop (or so you say) so I am sure you realize that you could very easily pass off the infection to a healthy fish by feeding it the sick one!!!

POOR advice to say the least.

CM
 

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