euthansia

[fish&chips]

cm very very good point i didnt even think if feed a dieing fish to another about them catching it
well if they dieing must be reason and not good so silly giving it to another sure will pass on wont it ??


i actualy thought to myself wot would happen if i ate a fish that had a deases would i be affected i.e cod herring haddock??

 

[mrV]

Clove-oil, 100% eugenol. You'll probably find it from health food store. http/www.cc.jyu.fi/~jpirhon/clove%20oil.htm In UK there is product "Julia Lawless, Aqua oleum, clove bud, 100% etheric oil" http/www.aqua-oleum.co.uk

10-20 times bigger consentration than using it in anaesthesia (e.g. 1ml/0,5 liter water). Other chemicals, like MS222 or benzocaine need prescription.

 

[Alien Anna]

Clove-oil, 100% eugenol. You'll probably find it from health food store. http/www.cc.jyu.fi/~jpirhon/clove%20oil.htm In UK there is product "Julia Lawless, Aqua oleum, clove bud, 100% etheric oil" http/www.aqua-oleum.co.uk

10-20 times bigger consentration than using it in anaesthesia (e.g. 1ml/0,5 liter water). Other chemicals, like MS222 or benzocaine need prescription.

Unfortunately there is no evidence that non-water soluble anaesthetics have any effect on fish except suffocating them - in order to cause them to fall asleep, it would have to be water soluble. Neither benzocaine nor clove oil are water soluble. Clove oil would probably work by burning the poor fish's gills.

I had a long conversation with a vet who'd worked with trout farms a while back. His conclusion was that beheading or crushing the skull was the only guaranteed way to terminate a fish with minimal suffering.

With a small fish ie. a small tetra, dropping the fish into boiling water would cause instant death. However, in a larger fish this method would cause terrible suffering.

A method I was told to use (by a vet) was to put a fish into a bag with a small amount of water. Losely tie the bag just to keep the fish wet and then drop a very large brick on it from a great height. You can then dispose of the fish in the bag by wrapping the whole mess in newspaper and putting it in your bin. Only do this with a small fish, however, since an oscar or pleco would probably just be crushed, but not killed by this method.

For bigger fish he recommended getting a fisherman's device which is like a hammer, used for killing salmon. It crushes the skull. If you are squeamish, get a fisherman to do the deed for you.

 

[fish&chips]

steak hammer solid steal or a meat clever would remove a head fast and simple

 

[mrV]

If you want to search more information:

Anderson, W.G., McKinley, R.S., Colavecchia, M. (1997). The use of clove oil as an anesthetic for rainbow trout and its effects on swimming performance. North American Journal of Fisheries Management 17, 301-307.



Gilderhus, P.A. & Marking, L.L. (1987). Comparative efficacy of 16 anesthetic chemicals on rainbow trout. North American Journal of Fisheries Management 7, 288-292.



Iwama, G.K., McGeer, J.C. & Pawluk, M.P. (1989). The effects of five fish anesthetics on acid-base balance, hematocrit, blood gases, cortisol, and adrenaline in rainbow trout. Canadian Journal of Zoology 67, 2065-2073.



Keene, J.L., Noakes, D.L.G., Moccia, R.D. & Soto, C.G. (1998). The efficacy of clove oil as an anaesthetic for rainbow trout, Oncorhynchus mykiss (Walbaum). Aquaculture Research 29, 89-101.



Marking, L.L. & Meyer, F.P. (1985). Are better anesthetics needed in fisheries ? Fisheries 10, 2-5.



Pirhonen, J. (2001). Kirjolohen paastotus lisäsi lääkerehun syömishalua. Suomen kalankasvattaja 3/2001: 46-51.



Prince, A. & Powell, C. (2000). Clove oil as an anaesthetic for invasive field procedures on adult rainbow trout. Journal of Fisheries Management 20, 1029-1032.



Summerfelt, R.C. & Smith, L.S. (1990). Anaesthesia, surgery and related techniques. Teoksessa: Methods for fish biology. Eds. Schreck, C.B. & Moyle, P.B., s. 213-272. American Fisheries Society, Bethesda, MD. 684 s.



Yoshimura, H., Nakamura, M. & Koeda, T. (1981). Mutagenicity screen of anaesthetics for fishes. Mutation Research 90, 119-124.

***

Unfortunately there is no evidence that non-water soluble anaesthetics have any effect on fish except suffocating them - in order to cause them to fall asleep, it

If you like, you can mix it with ethanol. I have and haven't mixed, work in both way. Water should be over 15C or clove oil doesn't dissolve in water at all.

would have to be water soluble. Neither benzocaine nor clove oil are water soluble. Clove oil would probably work by burning the poor fish's gills.

It doesn't burn. They have studied it using it in anaesthesia when examined fishes. After putting fishes in fresh water, they have revived and were ok.

With a small fish ie. a small tetra, dropping the fish into boiling water would cause instant death. However, in a larger fish this method would cause terrible suffering.

And some fishes have jumped out of pot and skin has hatched out So, no, no.. No, boiling water and fishes.. Only when cooking

So again, acceptable ways:

1. sharp scissors
2. sharp knife
3. hammer
4. ms222 from vet
5. benzocaine from vet
6. clove oil, pure eugenol

 

[Alien Anna]

Thanks for the refs! I'll pass them on to my vet friend - he's been out of the loop a few years and although he's our local "expert" I'm quite willing to admit he could be mistaken. With such an important subject there isn't really an excuse - if we can't trust our vets, who can we trust?

 

[Alien Anna]

Thanks for the refs! I'll pass them on to my vet friend - he's been out of the loop a few years and although he's our local "expert" I'm quite willing to admit he could be mistaken. With such an important subject there isn't really an excuse - if we can't trust our vets, who can we trust?

 

[Alien Anna]

Oops! The board just went nuts!

 

[mrV]

Don't forget to print this: http/www.cc.jyu.fi/~jpirhon/clove%20oil.htm

And if he needs still more info, ask him to contact him: http/www.cc.jyu.fi/~jpirhon/ They, at university of Jyväskylä, has studied clove oil in fish anaesthesia.

 

[fish&chips]

cool

 

[AquaNut]

Pufferpack - I did see mention of clove oil on several sites, but always in reference to goldfish, koi, or other cold water pondfish. As you say, it is used as an anaesthetic and in large enough doses will produce a permanent sleep. It was suggested that you put the fish in a relatively small container, add the clove oil, then cover the container to calm the fish.

Fish&Chips - As I stated at the beginning of my post, I have read and heard about the freezing method for years; it was not something I just looked into now. However, for the sake of debating different methods, including the very effective yet macabre ones recommended by Dragonslair, I thought it best to dig around and see what information I could find for BOTH sides of the argument. Without a doubt, Dragonslair's advice was absolutely correct in that the methods he recommends are the quickest way to euthanize a fish. However, I also found plentiful evidence to support my own opinion, which is that the decapitation/pithing method is not well suited to many hobbyists.

Also, I agree with what you said about taking a fish to the vet to be euthanized, Fish&Chips, and in a perfect world, that's how all fish would be put down. However, I am certain I'm not alone in saying that it's just not reasonable for most people to go to the vet every time a guppy or neon tetra needs to be euthanized.

Edit - Oops. Missed the whole second page of replies. Clove oil sounds like the way to go then, MrV. From everything I read yesterday, MS222 is the only FDA approved chemical for use in euthanizing fish. However, it's not available to the public (in the US; don't know about here in Canada), so you'd have to take your fish to the vet.

I respect those of you who are able to give your fish a quick exit with decapitation or any method of bludgeoning/crushing with bricks etc. I just know it's not in my composition to do so. I wouldn't even participate in the dissection of the dead frog we were supposed to do wayyy back in high school biology. I live alone with my three year old and my cats. I'm pretty sure my daughter doesn't want to crush the fish for me, and well, we don't need to discuss how the cats would handle the situation. Clove oil sounds relatively humane.

 

[Pufferpack]

I just checked the add at the bottom of the screen (the one for Essential Oil Clary sage) and they sell clove oil online, handy . On a side note I found out the other day that Clove oil is also good for stopping dogs from chewing on wood furnishings, just rub a small amount on the wood and the dogs will avoid it like the plague

 

[Alien Anna]

I just checked the add at the bottom of the screen (the one for Essential Oil Clary sage) and they sell clove oil online, handy . On a side note I found out the other day that Clove oil is also good for stopping dogs from chewing on wood furnishings, just rub a small amount on the wood and the dogs will avoid it like the plague

It's also good for toothache, which makes this discussion subject excessively appropriate for me (or was it to put down the toothache victim? ).

 

[Pufferpack]

It's also good for toothache, which makes this discussion subject excessively appropriate for me (or was it to put down the toothache victim? ).

That depends...did you get the toothache from chewing on wood?
...sorry to hear about the ache , hope it gets better soon

 

[Alien Anna]

I just checked the add at the bottom of the screen (the one for Essential Oil Clary sage) and they sell clove oil online, handy . On a side note I found out the other day that Clove oil is also good for stopping dogs from chewing on wood furnishings, just rub a small amount on the wood and the dogs will avoid it like the plague

Can I just make a public health warning?

Clary Sage Oil that you mentioned is an abortificent so should never be handled by pregnant women as it may induce miscarriage or premature labour.

Thanks.