Dying Betta

[Essjay]

In that case, most of us would recommend not to get another betta unless you have another tank set up ready in case things go wrong. Always have a back up plan ready when trying a betta in a community tank.

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

Bettas are not community fish and shouldn't be kept as such

 

[Silencedogood]

In that case, most of us would recommend not to get another betta unless you have another tank set up ready in case things go wrong. Always have a back up plan ready when trying a betta in a community tank.

I do have a backup tank. It's a 20 gallon long. Typically I have baby fish in there but it's empty right now.

 

[Silencedogood]

Bettas are not community fish and shouldn't be kept as such

Then why was mine thriving so well?

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

Then why was mine thriving so well?

He wasn't, he died

 

[Silencedogood]

He wasn't, he died

After 8 months, including moving and a completely new water source.

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

How many of your other fish died?

 

[Silencedogood]

How many of your other fish died?

4 guppies and 2 neon tetras.

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

I would very strongly recommend you don't put another betta in your community tank, you've already got 2 females in there and it's just asking for trouble. Please swallow some humble pie and understand its not in your fishes best interest to house them together like that you came here looking for advice but you're not listening to anyone

 

[Silencedogood]

I would very strongly recommend you don't put another betta in your community tank, you've already got 2 females in there and it's just asking for trouble. Please swallow some humble pie and understand its not in your fishes best interest to house them together like that you came here looking for advice but you're not listening to anyone

I'm really sorry, I didn't mean to come off like I'm not listening. Maybe I didn't explain well enough. The female bettas are not permanent. Those were only for my betta to breed with. If I add another male betta, it will be without the females in the community tank. Also, I would get a baby male (like I did last time) so that he is raised in my water and used to the community fish. I would only add female bettas if he wasn't aggressive and I wanted to breed them.

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

Many of our members come here for advice as they are new to the hobby, so I am going to take the time to explain things a bit more for you. This is not just an argument, it is hopefully a learning tool.

Having studied fish physiology, one thing must be remembered. The behaviours, expectations, traits, needs, etc. of a fish species is programmed into their DNA. None of us is going to change this. The fish is the way it is because it has evolved to be the way it is. Individual fish of a species, just like individual animals and even humans, can sometimes differ from the norm for the species, but with fish that cannot be relied upon just to try something that the majority knows will harm the fish. It is not fair to the fish.

The scientific facts concerning the species Betta splendens are as follows:

Betta splendens seems to live solitary in its natural habitat which is still and sluggish waters, including rice paddies, swamps, roadside ditches, streams and ponds. Such an environment is not conducive to fish that require oxygenated waters so one can expect few if any non-anabantid species to live in such habitats. During the dry season, most Bettas are able to bury themselves in the bottom of their dried up habitat. There, they can live in moist cavities until water once again fills the depression during a rainy period. The fish can survive even if thick, clay mud is all that is left of the water. They do not survive total drying out of the bottom (Vierke 1988). There are very few fish species, and none that are found in the same habitats, that can manage life in such conditions, which is further evidence that the B. splendens is most likely a solitary species.​

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All anabantids are territorial; male bettas instinctively fight each other in defending their territory. Selective breeding over many years has produced fish with a heightened sense of territory defense, which explains the common name of Siamese Fighting Fish. Fish fights for money is a "sport," if you want to use the term for such animal cruelty. This means the Bettas we see in stores have an even greater propensity to literally kill each other given the chance. For a fish that instinctively lives alone, and believes it must defend its territory to survive--both traits that are programmed into the species' DNA--this aggressiveness is likely to extend to any fish that dares enter the Betta's territory, which in most cases will be the tank space. And forcing the fish to "live" under such conditions is frankly inhumane.​

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Individual fish within a species do not always adhere to the "norm" for the species; this is true of all animals, including humans. But with fish, responsible aquarists should research the fish's behaviours, traits, and requirements, and then aim to provide accordingly. "Expectations" are as I said above programmed into the DNA, and we are not going to change them just because we may want to have a Betta in the tank with "x" fish species. Sometimes the Betta seems to co-operate with our experiment, but in many of these situations it may not last for long, eventually if not immediately. Fish that do succumb are likely being severely stressed, unseen to the aquarist until it is too late.​

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If the Betta does not first attack the intruders, the intruders may go after the Betta. It is a two-way street, and in either situation it is the Betta that loses in the end. Severe stress causing increased aggression, or conversely severe withdrawal from being targeted by the other fish. And physical aggression is not the only concern; fish release pheromones and allomones, chemical communication signals that other fish read, and these can promote aggression that will in time weaken the fish to the point of death. There is no reason to risk the fish in one's attempt to prove scientific understanding wrong.​

Have a read of this

 

[Silencedogood]

Have a read of this

Hmm, thank you. So the main objection is because bettas are solitary?

 

[Essjay]

Yes, they are progammed by their DNA to live solitary lives.

Even males and females live separate lives in the wild. In our tanks, males and females should only be kept together very briefly for breeding, and only after conditioning both of them. After they've spawned, the natural behaviour for a male is to chase the female out of his territory, but this can't happen in a fish tank tank so we have to remove the female back to her own tank immediately spawning has finished. The female is often pretty beaten up by this time, and putting her back alone in her own tank gives her chance to recover.

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

Yes, they are progammed by their DNA to live solitary lives.

Even males and females live separate lives in the wild. In our tanks, males and females should only be kept together very briefly for breeding, and only after conditioning both of them. After they've spawned, the natural behaviour for a male is to chase the female out of his territory, but this can't happen in a fish tank tank so we have to remove the female back to her own tank immediately spawning has finished. The female is often pretty beaten up by this time, and putting her back alone in her own tank gives her chance to recover.

And even if they don't fight they most probably would be extremely stressed which contributes to a weakened immune system that leaves them open to disease and illness

 

[Silencedogood]

Yes, they are progammed by their DNA to live solitary lives.

Even males and females live separate lives in the wild. In our tanks, males and females should only be kept together very briefly for breeding, and only after conditioning both of them. After they've spawned, the natural behaviour for a male is to chase the female out of his territory, but this can't happen in a fish tank tank so we have to remove the female back to her own tank immediately spawning has finished. The female is often pretty beaten up by this time, and putting her back alone in her own tank gives her chance to recover.

And even if they don't fight they most probably would be extremely stressed which contributes to a weakened immune system that leaves them open to disease and illness

Ok, thank you for the info. I'll probably do more research on this