Dwarf Cichlids

[Far_King]

Don't go near 'Blue' Rams unless you have very soft, acidic water. Bolivians are a great fish. I've kept many and in a 300L I've had up to five with no issues - they bicker often but never anything serious. I'm pretty sure I had 5 males as well - no hints of breeding and territories established for each.
 
Not a dwarf, but Thorichthys ellioti is a beauty and would be fine with your size tank and stocking
 
Had a wild Curviceps once. Amazing colours - then one day it took a dislike to my Angel and had to be removed

 
My water is slightly over 7pH.  Which I know is at the top end for some of the species I've mentioned.
 
Thorichthys ellioti may be a little large for what I have in mind.  I also have Amano shrimp (2") and Bamboo shrimp (3"+) in the habitat, so a larger cichlid (albeit small for a cichlid), may not be ideal.  Stunning fish though.
 
Has anyone kept Dwarf Petricolas with dwarf cichlids? (and shrimp).

I love L.dorsigera

 
Nice!  I like those too and from what I've just read they would be ideal in my setup.
 
You know you lot are just giving me more ideas and not narrowing down my choice don't you? 

 

[Akasha72]

this is what happens when you throw it out for discussion Far_King 

 

[cooledwhip]

My choice would be the apistos. And with 200 litres, a 1m 2f trio, or even a quartet. You just need 1 cave per female plus one extra to give them some degree of choice.
 
Rams - I've tried rams but can't keep them alive.
Bolivian rams - very hard to sex in the shop as they are so young. However, if you can find a definite pair these would be another fish I would look at. You can sometimes spot pairs in the shop tank if you watch the fish for a while. I had a pair a few years ago until the female got a piece of gravel stuck in her throat (note - be careful if you have gravel with all three on your list) and the male just pined away after she died.
Kribs - I've read too many tales of how aggressive they get if they breed.
 
 
Edit to add - my avatar is a female Apistogramma cacatuoides that was bred in my tank. I have a soft spot for apistos.

I've heard a lot of people can't keep rams. I just bought a pair of German blue rams and I'm scared they will die.
 
They came in yesterday and they have been alive so far.

 

[Far_King]

Right, so now the tank has moved I've got the itch to go shopping.
 
Something else has occurred to me, I'd like to keep barbs which I've never attempted before.  Would Tiger Barbs and Apistogramma Agassizii be ok in the same environment?  Would Barbs also be ok with large shrimp (2" to 4")?
 
At the top of the tank are a pair of Golden Panchax.  The female is perhaps two inches long and the male nearer four.  Would barbs be ok with these too?

 

[Akasha72]

I'd be wary of barbs with the flowing fins of the apisto ... 

 

[Far_King]

Certainly the male is a concern, the females aren't quite so bad.  I was thinking of around a dozen barbs so more than sufficient for them to ideally keep any aggression amongst themselves, also they're more a mid-level fish whereas the Apisto would be lower level, although no doubt their paths may cross again I'd hope that in the main they'd be out of each others way.
 
The tank is also heavily planted (more so than before) with a lot of bogwood.  I'll be adding even more plants and wood to create more caves and hideaway spots.

 

[Akasha72]

by the sounds of things it could work ... I've never been a fan of barbs - purely because of the 'nippy' thing but I've read several threads on here where it's working purely because they are in a large group. As you are going to be well planted the apisto's would stay in and around those area's (and low down too, as you say) so maybe they'll be okay.
 
Let me know, I'd certainly be interested to know how it turns out. It may even end up with me changing my opinion on barbs

 

[Far_King]

It's only theory.  I hoped someone on here had given it a go.
 
I prefer the look of the Tigers and I know they're nippier than gold barbs for example, I'd most likely be safe with those.

 

[Essjay]

Have you considered 5 band barbs? They look similar to tiger barbs but are less nippy.

 

[Akasha72]

or ... black ruby barbs ... the males are stunning when they are coloured up but the females are a similar colour to tigers

 

[Byron]

On the subject of barbs, these are not recommended with sedate fish like cichlids.  First, the barbs (all species) are fairly active to very active.  I currently have a group of almost 20 Black Ruby Barbs, and they charge around all the time.  I moved them into their own authentic biotope (Kelani and Nilwala rivers) 3-foot tank, from a 4-foot and for a time a 5-foot.  Very, very active, and this can unsettle sedate fish.
 
Fin nipping is another concern.  Never put Tiger Barbs in with sedate fish regardless of the numbers, unless it is a huge aquarium.  Black Rubys are not "nippers" by nature, but the activity issue is still ruling them out in my view.
 
Back a few posts you mentioned pH just above 7.  It is the GH that is much more significant for fish, since this is the dissolved mineral in the water and this gets into the kidneys of soft water fish.  An acidic pH would be preferable for dwarf cichlids in general, and the pH may lower naturally, depending upon the GH and particularly KH.  Now, having said that (just for clarification on what matters), if Apistogramma agassizii is the choice, this fish is more adaptable to parameters (GH, pH and temperature) than would be many that are wild caught (A. agassizii is commercially raised, at least in NA, though importers do carry wild caught sometimes).
 
Byron.

 

[Far_King]

I'll do a GH and KH test tonight and see what comes back.
 
I feel barbs could be kept successfully in that tank, but my big concern is definitely the cichlids and my preference is for the cichlids over barbs.  So there's only one choice to make.
 
The stocking is fairly sparse in that tank.  I'm wary of introducing smaller dither fish due to the presence of the Panchax.  If sufficiently planted, would the cichlids still feel secure enough to display well or should I look at introducing a different mid-level fish?  Rainbow fish perhaps?  

 

[Byron]

The Panchax wasn't mentioned as being in this tank (with dwarf cichlids) previously, and this will impact "dither" fish options.  Without the Panchax, good dithers for dwarf cichlids are characins, provided they are not inclined to fin nip (several will, readily).  Hatchetfish and pencilfish (most but not all of the species) are frequently used, and there are a number of suitable tetras.

 

[Far_King]

Thank you Byron, I do like hatchet fish.  I think Emperor Tetras will be my choice of characin, especially with Panchax.

 

[Byron]

Thank you Byron, I do like hatchet fish.  I think Emperor Tetras will be my choice of characin, especially with Panchax.

 
Another caution then, panchax may not work with hatchetfish.  I have found that any fish spending much of its time near the surface generally do not like hatchetfish.  I'm not overly experienced with panchax, but I believe they are upper level fish.
 
Are we still considering dwarf cichlids?  If yes, I would look for a bit quieter tetra than the Emperor Tetra.