doing some before time research.

[Paul_MTS]

Hello all you salty people!!

I thinking more and more about doing a salty tank in the coming future!!

Just thinking out a few options which need some answers..

Would a 2ft cube be a good size to start with? I'd get it sumped!

How many fishies could I have in there, I'ved done and doing all the big fish in FW so what to do all the cute litle fish in salt water, damsels, gobies maybe some of the smaller angels and butterflies???

i like the look of lots of liverock with urm sea plants on (god thats a great term )

please excuse any exteremly stupid ideas i may have suggested.

thanks for any help.

 

[parker313]

I'd start with a 55 gallon With a 55g and a sump, you could do some really cool stuff without too much expense!

 

[jflowers]

I have an aquamedic 2' cube, best tank I have by far.

Jon

 

[superman]

I wouldn't go with a 55 gallon, but would definitely go with the 2' cube tank! Cube tanks offer so many different possiblities as far as aquascaping, where a 55 gallon is probably the hardest tank to aquascape (just not very much front to back distance, doesn't accomodate much base rock) I have tried to aquascape a friend's 55 gallon, and I just gave up and told him to get a 75 or a 90.

 

[Paul_MTS]

Just read through the pinned topics.

my tank would be 60US gallons + sump, i might use a 10ukg i have that will be closed down.

I don't really need to get into aquascaping just yet, your way ahead of me!! Although what makes it hard for a 55g to aqua scape in marine??

oh and the "sea plants" i meant (soft) corals and anemones. i think i'ved picked up that i can get away with less lighting doing away with the hard corals right?? how many watts should i be thinking about?

I'ved got my trusty Dick Mills encyclopedia in me lap telling me that 1cm body length of fish per 120sq. cm of water surface is the stocking level for tropical marine, is this a good quide? so i have 3600 sq.cm of surface area + a bit more for ripples and waves!! so going by that that gives me 1ft of fish to play with wow marine really is quite tight if thats right??

 

[andywg]

With a 2foot cube you should be able to get away with one Metal Halide bulb for the whole tank. Normal guidance is 250W halide for 2 foot, or if you really want to go for some fine corals you could throw a 400W on there (though it may be extreme as without a longer tank there would be few hiding places).

I seem to recall you can get normal electrics wired up quite well by your brother? If so you should be able to set up a Halide system for peanuts (I got 2 150W for my FW for £80 off ebay). So long as you can knock up a fairly good custom hood, or pendant.

Mind you, there may be heat issues...but that's to worry about when you decide what to do.

With a 2square foot ffotprint for the tank you should be able to do well with compact flourexcent (think energy saving light bulbs).

From my somewhat small Icthyology studying, I seem to recall that as the salt level increase the oxygen content lowers and there is only around 1/4 to 1/8 of the oxygen in reef water to FW. I believe you end up applying that rule to reef tanks. While it is quite tight, a number of bright and attractive fish do stay quite small. Also, don't forget you have the clean up crew (around 1 per gallon - so there'll be plenty of shrimps, snails, hermit crabs and possibly a starfish or two. I'm not too sure how starfish fit into the picture). And on top of that there are all the corals and other "non-fish" life that grow on the Live Rock.

Thinking about it, although you can get it at staff rates, LR is not cheap. at £10 per kilo you'll be looking at around £300 for that cube. However Nav has posted somewhere how to make homemade LR (I think I have it in PM should you need it). you can always mix homemade and Live and eventually it will all be colonised.

Final thought...

Why not get another tank like your big FW and fill it with salty...that would be a tank to see.

 

[Paul_MTS]

Yeh I don't want to go too over the top!! I'ved got to think of the electricity aswell, apparently it was high this 1/4!! I was thinking of using T5's but just typing this i remeberer reading something about almost having to MH for deeper tanks??

Yep you would be right there, my bro's a trained/qualified sparky!! I reakon I might beable to get the lights through him, this tank wouldn't be set up until aorund the summer though, although I'm thinking of buying the actual tank now....

With a 2square foot ffotprint for the tank you should be able to do well with compact flourexcent (think energy saving light bulbs).

i take it you mean them as extras for say moon lighting??

small Icthyology studying

don't use big words on me sonny makes sense though i think, yep i hadn't forgotten the clean up crew all together, i just like me fish!!

although you can get it at staff rates

I wish!! we don't do marine at work so i'll be paying full wack for most parts apart from the filtration, skimmer and lighting aswell. all live stock is gonna kill the wallet though.

Yeh, i'ved a rear a few bits on ya base rock using things like tuffa rock. my mate at work has a marine and he has lava rock under all his live, although i think it was his arrow crab that killed most things that came out of it

Why not get another tank like your big FW and fill it with salty...that would be a tank to see. wahey.gif

NO!! 4 tanks and thats it!! My big freswater, the 4x2x2 for Cookie the puffer my 4ft community (have to beable to keep lots of plecs) and the marine then I'm done.

 

[andywg]

i take it you mean them as extras for say moon lighting??

No, I meant instead of T5s or MH if you didn't want to go mad with light. But it might be a bit dark at the bottom...

my mate at work has a marine and he has lava rock under all his live

I'm not sure how great Lava rock is. I hope Nav doesn't mind me reprinting his advice below:

Making Man-Made liverock is relatively easy. Its basically cement with aragonite sand. Mix it with either rocksalt or pasta and place in a sand mold. Once this sets, place the rock in freshwater and change this water on a regalr basis.. start out daily then gradually do weekly changes. As the rock gets saturated with water it dissolves the salt/pasta leaving micro cracks can cave pockets etc. this forms the basis of liverock. keep checking the PH as initiaily it will rise very high.. mabe higher than 13.0 !! keep doing water changes until the PH drops t the level of a normal marine tank. Once the PH is around 8.2 you can then put the raock into a bucket of salt water. Leave ig for a week and check the PH again. Should the PH remain as it was then its safe to use in a tank.

The above should be able to save a number of people a lot of money. I believe it is done on a huge scale in the gulf of Mexico and is sold as Florida Live Rock.

HIH

Andy

 

[superman]

Just read through the pinned topics.

my tank would be 60US gallons + sump, i might use a 10ukg i have that will be closed down.

I don't really need to get into aquascaping just yet, your way ahead of me!! Although what makes it hard for a 55g to aqua scape in marine??

oh and the "sea plants" i meant (soft) corals and anemones. i think i'ved picked up that i can get away with less lighting doing away with the hard corals right?? how many watts should i be thinking about?

I'ved got my trusty Dick Mills encyclopedia in me lap telling me that 1cm body length of fish per 120sq. cm of water surface is the stocking level for tropical marine, is this a good quide? so i have 3600 sq.cm of surface area + a bit more for ripples and waves!! so going by that that gives me 1ft of fish to play with wow marine really is quite tight if thats right??

With the use of live rock as the main aquascaping you have to find rock that will fit in the tank (since the front to back dimensions in a 55 gallon are tiny!) and stacking the rock is dangerous, since a rock slide would land against you front pane of glass! It's kinda one of those things that once you try it you realize how tough it is, though I have seen some succesful 55 gallons with good aquascaping, but a lot of times those same people say that they wish they would have gotten a 75 gallon or 90 gallon.

 

[Opcn]

Well, if any of your supliers do marine it shouldn't be to hard to get some of your Livestock at a reduced price. Also Lavarock is man made, the real stuff has lots of metals in it wich can be a problem but the man made stuff is just fine.

 

[Paul_MTS]

Yeah good point, I don't suppose you have much choice over what rock you get either really??Especially if they have small supplies.

I take it your meant ot try and avoid staking agaiast the back panel of glass? and have it all self supported right.

We only use 1 fish supplier unfortuanately and they only do freshwater. I know my mate at work got some cheap so will have to see about that when the time comes.

Seeing as my tanks seem to stabalize there PH at aorund 8 would it be wise putting anything in that raises PH?

also seeing as there's going to be the LR doing most the filtering what should i have in me sump? obviously pump, heater and a protein skimmer of some description but shall i have biological media or go for mainly mechanical?

ok 1 last Q before i knock off tonight..... how should i go about designing my sump? i'm considering ordering tank and sump in the next few days so i don't need to pay delivery twice, here's the design of my current FW sumps, the black lines are the glass and the red are just for measurements.

 

[andywg]

You could go for a mineral mud system to allow for macroalgae to take out the protein in the water (it's still an unkown point as to whether this system does best without a skimmer - tradition says yes though some people have reported benefits of using a skimmer too though I don't think the long term effects are yet known).

If you did I would leave the skimmer off (or, even better, skim at the start up and then keep it hady for emergencies).

Nav has a desing picture of his sump for his old 120 gallon somewhere but I can't find it through searching right now.

 

[Paul_MTS]

would i have enough space for that kind of system i seem to hjave pictures springing to mind of lond beds!!

I think i might do a 3x2x2 though as the space where it would go is a tad over 3ft so i might aswell make use of all the space!! which takes the volume up to 90 us gallons (75Uk) and consequenty use a bigger sump.

Would be good if i didn't need a skimmer although seeing as i would have to buy 1 incase anyways i think i would want to use it considering there not exactly cheap equipment top not use

cheers will look forward towards some pics!!

also can someone give me a guild on the stocking, me mate at work reakons double to what i worked out from my book, so 2ft of fish in a 2ft cube...

And 1 more thing!!....i'ved got 2 802 powerheads....would these bit a bit over powered for circulation in the tank? although comes to think of it, i might beable to finally make use of them running the sump, wasn't happy with there performance on my FW.

 

[superman]

Definitey wouldn't go with the macroalgae as your only filter for nutrient export, especially when stocking fish, may work in a coral only tank though. Macroalgaes leave nutrients in the water so that they don't starve themselves out, so you will always have a certain amount of unwanted nutrients that the macroalgae just won't take care of. Mangroves will take your nutrients down to 0, but you probably don't have enough space to hold enough mangroves to make the difference. I would go with macroalgae + protein skimmer, this is what I have seen work great for many people and I use myself. As far as a certain rule of thumb when trying to figure out how many fish to go in your 2' cube, forget it. First figure out what types of fish you like, then figure out if these particular fish are pigs to feed, or if they are grazers. I have always hated it when people justify how many fish they have in a tank by quoting "I have x inches of fish per x gallons" and then they wonder why fish are dying or starving or whatever problem they are having, simply because they ignored the exact type of care and space that is needed by certain fish, and only focused on how many "fish" they could keep in their particular tank. I don't mean to accuse you of being one of those people, I am simply trying to help you out as you are trying to plan out your tank's inhabitants. Put together a list of fish that you like (listed in order of importance) and post it, we can narrow down your options really quick for yah Have fun!

 

[Paul_MTS]

cheers super man, I'm a total salty newbie so thats the basic info i need aswell.

I'll look through the pretty pictures in my book tonight and make a list!!

right off to work now.