Do We As Hobbyists Overcomplicate Things?

[Primous]

I should state that in my experience, this hobby of ours is a very selfish undertaking. While we can seek out ideas via blogs, papers, and forums such as this ultimately, it is us as individuals that take the decision of what to do in our aquariums according to what moves us. Like most of you I too can get lost just watching my tank and learning to spot the changes in ecology by eye. Though with that said, over time I have seen, read, and heard of some really complex and seemingly unnecessary practices a few of which I'll share.


Complex water changes & temperature matching VS Empty and refill

The number of ways to wc I guess varies from tank to tank. And from my understanding the majority people take a lot of care and extra time to temperature match. As lose example: Boil water - add it to the bucket - add cold water - add thermometer - wait for the temp to be just right - add dechlor - repeat - repeat - repeat...

And this is done because somewhere somehow they have come to believe that because their stock is kept at say 24C, this temp must be maintained at all times and all costs lest their fish suffer. This is simply not true. In the wild, the Amazon for instance (south America where a large portion of our tropical fish live) the temp drops rapidly & nightly 5-6C. Yup Nightly. So a weekly water change where your temp drops a few C will simply not hurt your fish. Not only that but keeping your temp at the exact same range day in day out is said to weaken the immune system of some fish over time.


Complex acclimating VS plop and drop

Again there are a million ways to do this. I was reading a thread recently where the member went through 24 hours of drip acclimation to match temp and ph adjust his new fish. But what struck me most was that the lfs was less than a mile from his home? On tuesday I received two royal mail shipped fish orders. Both from different fs' located in different parts of the country. Both fish were housed in ph's which are very different to mine and in short, I acclimated both by plopping the fish in to temp adjust for an hour and then dropping the fish into the tank allowing the fish to adjust to ph. Something which they are genetically built for and on that note...

Complex and needles PH/param adjustments VS leaving you water source as is

Expensive Ro water units. An endless number of products that go either in your filter or tank to fiddle with your ph and params. Products that then need to be replaced after a short period of time. What for? Because somewhere it was mentioned that the ideal ph for your fish is 5/6 and your tap water is 7/8/9. In the vast majority of cases from rummynoses tetras to mbuna cichlids a stable ph is more important than the exact ph. Both species will live happily in a ph from 6-9. PH worries also apply to water changes where ph "swings" are a concern. To be clear "ph swings" only affect your stock if the "swing" is +/- 5. So if your tank is say Ph8, and your water source has dropped to say Ph6 a 50% water change will not affect your stock in any way. They will adjust as with in the wild ph can swing rapidly for any number of naturally occurring reasons.

These are just some seemingly unnecessary practices I have noted. I'd be interested to see what others have come across.

 

[FishBlast]

I guess it's the "Better safe than sorry" reason for those.
I never knew about acclimatizing the fish until joining this forum, I just dropped whatever I got from the store, directly into the tank. Though I rarely had to buy any fish from there anyway and when I or my dad did, they were hardy fish (hoplos, goldfish of several varieties, fossilis or swordtails). Was lucky I didn't introduce ich and such though.

All these years until I've set up this new tank, I haven't even been heating the water of the tank. The fish had to adjust to the house temp. At least that made them hang on when the electricity was down for a few hours (this winter there were some crashes for up to 7 hours due to what ever was screwed up at the power plant). Now I have a heater, it's set to 22C but since it's spring, the water is now 24C.

 

[CezzaXV]

Tbh, I think most of what you've said are the extreme cases. I personally don't know anyone who goes to that extreme to temp match. Most people as far as I know just feel it coming out the tap to make sure it's roughly the same. Personally I refill with a hose. Sometimes my tap won't maintain warm water for that long so I just drip it in slowly so that the heater can keep up. I drip acclimatise for about an hour as I like to be on the paranoid side, but I've never heard of anyone doing it for 24 hours. We do often get people around here asking if they should change their water params, and again it's mainly the extreme cases where there's something majorly wrong or keeping fish which have very specific requirements. Most of the time we advise people just to leave it as is.

I think fishkeeping is a pretty flexible hobby though, in that you can put as much or as little effort in as you want.

 

[OldMan47]

A lot depends on what you are keeping Primous.

Water changes at my house are simple. Drain a bunch of water, no sense to a small water change, and refill with water that feels about the same temperature or a bit cooler than the tank water I removed. No thermometer is needed, my mixing faucet will get temperatures close enough if I take a few seconds to feel the water that is filling my bucket. Don't forget the dechlorinator unless you are one of those people who do very small water changes. Not much real extra effort expended there.

Acclimation: If you have hardy fish, go ahead with a plop and drop. If you have sensitive fish or fish from different waters, you had better drip them over an hour or two. Last year I killed my show entry at the ALA convention by believing that the local water would probably be close enough and knowing the temperature was close. Next morning I had a dead fish in the show tank. I had dripped the ones I was keeping in my room and simply scooped one and plopped it into that show tank as a replacement entry. The dripped fish survived, even with the move from tank to tank, the plopped fish went in the bin.

Only people using salt water need ever use complex chemistry to control things. Fresh water people are almost always better off letting their fish live with local tap water conditions. If you intend to breed certain of the soft water egg layers, that is entirely different from simply having them survive. As an example angels survive but never breed in my tap water. My tap water is too hard with a high pH for angels to really do well, but they live fine in it for many years.

 

[KkAaNnEe]

The first one is definitely overcomplicated, the last two should really be followed if you have sensitive fish, fish dont react well to sudden changes of anything

 

[Akasha72]

I've always relied on my common sense regarding water changes and introducing new fish. If the new water is 'near enough' in temp I just add it. I've never lost a fish through doing this. Dechlorinator is more important to me in the long run and I do tend to add a higher dose to be on the safe side.
Adding new fish - well I've never gone to a big hoo-har over it. I float the bag for about 15 mins and then open the bag, add a little of my water over a period of about 10 mins and then let the fish go. The only fish that didn't respond well was one peppered cory but I think it was sick to start with anyway.

Having said that I've not got any expensive fish and maybe had I of paid a lot for a fish I would have been a lot more diligent.

I guess it's up to the individual person how they care for their fish

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Firstly, smaller pH changes are way overblown in terms of their potential danger. Hardness or TDS changes are much more critical. It has to do with how the fish osmoregulate (look it up if you are unfamiliar with this term) and is also why almost all sw and fw fish cant live in each other's environments.

Secondly, ammonia is more toxic the higher the pH. If fish have been in a bag for some time, as when they are shipped, the bag water tends to drop in pH. Or the fish may have simply been kept in lower pH water than your's. If you add higher pH water to bag water with a lower pH you are basically turning less toxic ammonia into more toxic ammonia. So while it is the ammonia that harms the fish, it is the pH change that allowed it. Often the acclimation process designed to help the fish will actually harm or kill them. I wonder how many folks have ever tested the params of the bag water when the fish arrive? This will give you a pretty good idea of what to do relative to acclimating.

Third, if there is a noticeable difference between the TDS/hardness of the water from which the fish came and the water in your tank, it would take a few days to acclimate the fish to that without issue, So acclimation won't help much on this front. When the difference is not so great, acclimating slowly can help.

Fourth, boiling water removes all of the KH from it. KH is what holds the pH steady. So it may not such a good idea to boil the water. there are better ways to adjust the temp.

Fifth, when the HK of water is high, changing the pH becomes more difficult. Especially if one is trying to drop the pH. For example, mixing 50% pH 8.0 water with a KH of 10-15 with 50% tap water with a pH of of 6.8 and KH of 4 will not end up giving you water with a pH of 7.4 (6.8 + 8 = 14.8/2 = 7.4). Here is why:

Buffering capacity refers to water's ability to keep the pH stable as acids or bases are added. pH and buffering capacity are intertwined with one another; although one might think that adding equal volumes of an acid and neutral water would result in a pH halfway in between, this rarely happens in practice. If the water has sufficient buffering capacity, the buffering capacity can absorb and neutralize the added acid without significantly changing the pH. Conceptually, a buffer acts somewhat like a large sponge. As more acid is added, the ``sponge'' absorbs the acid without changing the pH much. The "sponge's'' capacity is limited however; once the buffering capacity is used up, the pH changes more rapidly as acids are added.

from http/fins.actwin.com/aquariafaq.html

Sixth, pH changes can not really be discussed in the absence of KH and GH. They are all intertwined.First, it is very rare to find high hardness- GH and KH- in low pH waters and vice versa. Second, KH levels determine how stable the pH will be and how difficult it will be to alter it.

Seventh, people who have nasty tap water incapable of supporting fish need to use RO. People who want to keep fish well outside their tap parameters often need RO to help adjust them. If you have to use 100% RO, you must remineralize it or your fish will not live very long. For me to bring in altum angels from the wild meant I had to have RO. RO not only helps when altering the pH but also in softening water.

Eight, if you think you can drop a fish from pH 5.0 water into 7/8/9 pH water, I suggest you consider another hobby. The pH scale is logarithmic, i.e. a pH of 5.5 is 10 times more acidic than water at a pH of 6.5. Moreover, wild caught fish from acid waters have underdeveloped immune systems as bacteria normally can't survive in acid water.

Yes it is possible to be overly nit picking at times. But when there is a need/good reason for doing something in a tank, then a lot of the things above become important.

 

[masaman]

i just plop my new fish in , any that die where weak ones anyway so im just weeding out the weak ones .

i think ppl just love there fish and dont like to think of them suffering and everyone knows someone who takes there hobby a bit to far , the was a guy that lived over the road from me who used to wrap his sports car up in a plastic bubble every night . never did find out why but im sure it was importent in his mind

 

[IanS]

Water changes....mine gets done with a hose, temp is checked with my finger to feel that its not cold, overdose with dechlorinator and way you go..

I take about 45mins to add fish..removing water and adding tank water...never lost a fish yet.

I have added leafs to my tank to lower PH and it worked. but the whole RO etc thing i cant comment as i dont know much about

A lot of people do seem to way over complicate things IMO but thats up to the individual i suppose

I'm not a scientist...i just keep fish for a hobby

 

[ZoddyZod]

my two cents....

Water temp matching for WC

Although rivers may well drop 5c+ overnight, that is a gradual process over several hours. When we water change we probably do it in less than 30mins. However, a drop of a few degrees should not affect the fish and in some cases actually encourages spawning. The precise matching between new water and old is not required - your hand is accurate enough to feel the difference.

Acclimatizing

Whether I buy my fish from down the road or many miles away, I will always acclimatize for 1-2hrs gradually adding tank water. Yes I could chance it and plop them straight in, but why take that risk (however small) when you will potentially keep these fish for many years, and they've just cost you money?

pH adjusting

You only need to consider this if keeping fish which are known only to tolerate certain conditions (altum angels and their very low pH requirements for example). It's much simpler to simply buy fish that are known to be fine in whatver tap water you have.

 

[Tizer]

i just plop my new fish in , any that die where weak ones anyway so im just weeding out the weak ones .

i think ppl just love there fish and dont like to think of them suffering and everyone knows someone who takes there hobby a bit to far , the was a guy that lived over the road from me who used to wrap his sports car up in a plastic bubble every night . never did find out why but im sure it was importent in his mind

So because a fish gets shocked when it gets a sudden temperature change and dies, its weak?

That's possibly the most crap logic i have ever heard

 

[Xraymark]

I had a laugh at tank mans indepth knowledge and then the follow up was "I just plop my new fish in" .

My LFS's ph measure in the 8, while mine is 6.6 so I do acclimate. Good to realize i'm going in the right direction concerning ammonia toxicity.

 

[tribalbrit]

Wc; hose pipe in one corner siphoning out the back door--- hose pipe in other corner on slow straight from cold tap leave both running for about 30 to 40 minutes while I tidy tank, clean koralia's, filter strainers etc.
Never use dechlorinator, never have never will!

acclimatization; float in bag for 30 minutes adding tank water two or three times then straight into tank.

Been doing the same for more than years 30 years, never had a problem, and some of my fish are 22 years old.

So yes in my opinion some people do mess around far to much. Have you actually seen where these fish live?

(waits in anticipation for the back lash) lol.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

I'm in the middle of acclimitising threee different fis types right now...

2x 4-5cm Steatocranus tinanti
10x 2-3cm Microsynodontis sp.1
8x 5-6cm Phenacogrammus spp. (A teta from the same family as common "Congo Tetras" but with a more riverine forktail and yellow fins on the males)

The cichlids and catfish are acclimitising well, no issues while adding tank water by 5ml pipette (initially 5ml per 10 mins, adding more as volume in fish bag increases). The tetras, just like Yellow Tailed Congo Tetra, are very nervy and one male may not make it through drip acclimitisation (fingers crossed he makes it, but he is on the bucket flloor upside down).

Some fish are far more sensitive than others to transportation and acclimitisation...

 

[Primous]

Hey guys some really good and valid points here. To clarify...

WC: I use an aqueon water changer so to wc 50% of my 180L takes less than 15 mins. I purposely drop my water temp 5-6C

Acclimation: Plop 40-60 mins floating on the surface. Net and then drop.

PH fretting: A ph swing is only detrimental to fish if it's +/- 5 so I can't be concerned now that my tap is Ph6 and my tank is Ph8

Again there were some really good points but I think few know about this point in particular should really be stressed.

Secondly, ammonia is more toxic the higher the pH. If fish have been in a bag for some time, as when they are shipped, the bag water tends to drop in pH. Or the fish may have simply been kept in lower pH water than your's. If you add higher pH water to bag water with a lower pH you are basically turning less toxic ammonia into more toxic ammonia. So while it is the ammonia that harms the fish, it is the pH change that allowed it. Often the acclimation process designed to help the fish will actually harm or kill them. I wonder how many folks have ever tested the params of the bag water when the fish arrive? This will give you a pretty good idea of what to do relative to acclimating.

EDIT

Although rivers may well drop 5c+ overnight, that is a gradual process over several hours. When we water change we probably do it in less than 30mins. However, a drop of a few degrees should not affect the fish and in some cases actually encourages spawning. The precise matching between new water and old is not required - your hand is accurate enough to feel the difference.

While this is true tropical rain can drop and then raise a rivers temp seemingly on the turn of a dime. When I was in Brazil last year (oh the memories) that was one of the things that struck me was how quickly the weather would change. Baking sun, then freezing rain, right back to oven esq temps all within 20 mins. And when it rained it poured, heavily. It was like the torrential showers were on steroids.