Discus are an endless money pit!

[Stan510]

There is a new Discus breeder to Youtube-- Sheller Aquatics. There,he says it andshows it, BARE Discus tanks,crystal clear water and low light. Also keeps his water at 85F. No other fish in with the Discus as he says his goal is get them to the ten year old mark.
He feeds various worms,brine shrimp. Can be expensive foods..but they are Discus. High maintenance is needed.

 

[itiwhetu]

Any fish kept in bare tanks is just sad for the fish. How would you like to live in a house with no furniture, that's right it's a prison cell. Just sad really. I hate breeders that do this to their fish for the benefit of the fish.

 

[Stan510]

They are fish,not little people. I see just now that George Farmer,removed ALL plants from his Discus aquarium!...just some wood and a thin layer of sand. No Co2 of course now.
Like I said THAT set up the fish want- require to thrive. 85f ? Not many tankmates can take that..but so what if you have thriving Discus the size of big pancakes?
I've seen huge breeder Discus..and it was a 50 gallon,they were thick and healthy with deep red eyes..no substrate at all. Just excellent water quality.
I do agree that its bad to keep fish in a bare tank if they do just fine in planted and community tanks. Discus are just not those type of fish. They are not Corydoras or Rainbowfish.

 

[itiwhetu]

They are fish,not little people. I see just now that George Farmer,removed ALL plants from his Discus aquarium!...just some wood and a thin layer of sand. No Co2 of course now.
Like I said THAT set up the fish want- require to thrive. 85f ? Not many tankmates can take that..but so what if you have thriving Discus the size of big pancakes?
I've seen huge breeder Discus..and it was a 50 gallon,they were thick and healthy with deep red eyes..no substrate at all. Just excellent water quality.

Why you think a fish would want to live in a bare tank is beyond me? Sorry just don't get it. Fish need plants and wood and rocks and other fish to make them feel like they are at least partly at home. A glass box with nothing is just plain mean.

 

[itiwhetu]

They are fish,not little people. I see just now that George Farmer,removed ALL plants from his Discus aquarium!...just some wood and a thin layer of sand. No Co2 of course now.
Like I said THAT set up the fish want- require to thrive. 85f ? Not many tankmates can take that..but so what if you have thriving Discus the size of big pancakes?
I've seen huge breeder Discus..and it was a 50 gallon,they were thick and healthy with deep red eyes..no substrate at all. Just excellent water quality.
I do agree that its bad to keep fish in a bare tank if they do just fine in planted and community tanks. Discus are just not those type of fish. They are not Corydoras or Rainbowfish.

Mr Farmer has Lemon tetras in with them that hate warm water, even SF says they shouldn't be above 82F. I would say that was to warm for Lemon Tetras. I think Mr Farmer is a ...... .

 

[Stan510]

It's not a want with them it's a living requirement. Now,for the home breeder..a pair in a 100 gallon with some large aged wood,black background and a pair is happy for years..breeding.
In the Amazon,they prefer deeper water than a dip net, in larger rivers near the banks with I would guess overhanging trees to make more shade. Calm,and peace and quiet and away from large predatory fish.

 

[itiwhetu]

It's not a want with them it's a living requirement. Now,for the home breeder..a pair in a 100 gallon with some large aged wood,black background and a pair is happy for years..breeding.
In the Amazon,they prefer deeper water than a dip net, in larger rivers near the banks with I would guess overhanging trees to make more shade. Calm,and peace and quiet and away from large predatory fish.

So, these tanks provide Calm peace and quiet in your eyes.

 

[Stan510]

If I was keeping Discus...yes! Minimal clutter..very clean water and a breeding pair of anything from wild brown Discus to those eye popping reds. Black background would be fantastic. Black slate instead of sand or gravel. Or..if you prefer a background photo of plants that they sell at all LFS's.

 

[Unknownfuture]

I’d be cautious about adding a black background, black slate etc if your keeping pigeon strains unless you don’t mind a bit of peppering.
I would definitely agree that discus cost more than the average tropical fish, I’d say mainly due to diet. I worked out the cost of discus food I have 11 and it’s around £35 a month for a good beefheart mix.
Water changes now once a week 80%, even with the high protein diet, and decaying courgettes etc the nitrates don’t get to the point where the discus start to stress. I don’t get why people change water every day with these fish. There’s really no need unless breeding. Just keep an eye on parameters.
Lighting I keep at 30% which is quite bright given the bulbs on the unit. The discus are fine with these but the breeder used bright lights so it wasn’t anything new to them.
When People rush in the room, they will get used to this but instinctively still dart for cover. I’ve noticed over the year they still dart occasionally but a lot less and are more likely to just come to the front of the tank as they like any other cichlid will eat constantly. Mine are food monsters. The longer you have the discus the less you’ll see them dart about. Twitching and darting can also be a sign of high nitrates/ammonia presence as well.
Keeping discus in a bare bottom tank is essentially a prison. Give them sand, wood, rocks and possibly a few swords (amazon swords don’t need co2 and can survive at high temps with root tabs, the leaves on the sword tend to be more pointy I’ve found when they adapt to the high temp of the discus water).

All in all you’ll know how well you’ve done when the fish eventually die. If you get to 10 years you’ve done well. Anything under 5 years then I’d consider a different approach. Some people can only keep discus alive for 6 months to a year. Scary stuff !!

If you love fish I’d recommend discus to people who can spare a bit of time. They have personalities and the fragile pecking order always Gives me a laugh. (Nature at its best). I’ve also got one discus that’s established territory over where I put half a courgette in for the plecos, she defends the area constantly to eat the fragments the plecos tear off the courgette. Funny stuff to watch.

 

[Stan510]

I agree with most of that. But I really doubt Discus think a substrate is needed. They do like to huff and puff for worms in sandy gravels. I used to feed mine tubifex and the beefheart and sometimes brine shrimp.
The lack of substrate is just to keep things clean.
Also if you really want to keep them long term- a UV light seems like a great investment.
It has to be in the 0.0009 percent of Discus that live a decade. IF you get five years,that's better than 99% of home aquarists. Pro breeders might get to five years on a regular basis.
I've read of veterinarians- who who treat fish that say Discus were too hard to keep long even for them.

 

[Unknownfuture]

Agreed on the UV I have a good UV system just above the sump. I would have got this for any fish though. I guess you can only give it a go and see how well you do. I never knew the life expectancies were so low with home aquarists.
Mine are around 1-3 years old when bought from the breeder ( I mixed varying ages, something I wouldn’t do again ).so roughly 2- 4 years old at the moment. Hopefully I can make them last awhile longer.

 

[Stan510]

Youtube really paints a wrong picture. Again,90% plus of those vids with large fish in numbers all swimming in a bright aquarium with thickets of plants?..What you can do with buying adult fish and basically posing them with nice plants. Because they sure were not grown that way. I see so many vids of people who have great plant aquariums..and the Discus are dark,thin ( a sure death to follow) and head down. Same for public aquariums. I know what happy Discus look and act like..its been awhile since I've seen that.
Rare do I see a plant tank and somebody says "They have been in there for years" about the Discus. They beat the odds..but the house usually wins a gamble.

 

[Stan510]

If you noticed..George Farmer stopped keeping his Discus in a planted aquarium with sand. His fish were sulking,head down. He changed over to what the Discus like..no plants,just seasoned driftwood and a thin sprinkling of sand. None would be better I think. Then you have MJ aquascaper. He too put Discus into a heavily planted scape- and one adult fish died,while two others were very thin. He's redone the scape in less plants. But I think both have too bright a light..their fish seem to occupy the corners instead of back and forth like they would in dimmer lights.
You can wish Discus love a bright planted aquarium all you want. I wish Arowanas didn't jump...

 

[Colin_T]

We had discus in a 10 foot community tank at one of the shops. It was heavily planted and had 500 watt metal halide lights above it. The discus spent all their time out and about. They were straight into food during feeding times and the only times they went to a corner was when they were breeding.

Other fish in the tank included rainbowfish, various tetras, barbs, loaches, catfish and dwarf cichlids.

The tank was in the middle of the shop and always had people hanging around it. The fish get use to people and movement near them and they don't shy away in corners.

All the discus breeders in the past have said they need a dark quiet corner away from everyone. That is the worst place for fish because they freak out any time they see movement or shadow. If the fish are in an area with lots of people moving around them, they get use to it and settle down.

Another shop I worked at had a discus tank on the counter and kids use to tap on the glass and put their hands on the tank. There were always people near or next to the tank. The fish in this tank used to breed all the time and would take any sort of food from anybody's fingers during feeding time.

I had a friend who bred Tropheus (African Rift Lake cichlids). He kept them in a fish room. The room was painted black and the curtains were always closed. He had a dim light that came on in the morning and went off at night. There were lights above the tanks that came on during the day. His fish were so spooked by people you never saw them. I told him to open the curtains and spend time in there. And to put a tv in the room with them. A month later and I went back and his fish were all out in the open swimming around even with people in the room.

Any way, my point is, if fish are hiding in a corner and not coming out, it isn't because of plants in the tank or sand on the bottom. It is usually because they are shy and scared to come out.

 

[Stan510]

Always exceptions. MJ thinks his adult Discus had bashed itself to death as it had only been dead for minutes before he saw the fish on his side,not breathing.
I know..Fish stores always have fish that ignore people. One reason might be that they replace fish that don't adapt. I remember a local store had an adult Arowana in a 55 gallon for years. Don't try that at home!
I have had people say that wild Discus are much easier to keep. Maybe. I did see a video of wild fish brought back from Brazil and you could see they had thick bodys and interacted constantly. No hovering for hours stuff.
I stick to my guns,most vids of adult Discus in planted aquariums are not grown out in that aquarium,they went in large.