Dirted?

[Tyler_Fishman]

I plan on switching my substrate from sand to dirted, due to the fact I am not seeing any really good growth in my plants even though I use osmocote ferts. I'm going to use soil from the forest in my backyard (which is chemical free) I'm pretty sure the soil will be adaquete for plant growth, however I'm unsure what are your thoughts

 

[hobby5]

My thoughts: Plenty of people reach good plant growth on sand (including me). Using dirt is only a different way of fertilizing. You should first find out what is limiting plant growth in your current setting to have an idea if you target the right problem. Do you have decent lighting?

 

[StandbySetting]

I wouldn't use dirt to eliminate your problems - I currently grow plants in an inert substrate using traditionally hi tech methods, you just have a lighting or nutrient deficiency. Can we have some more information on your set up? That way we can better help you

 

[Byron]

I agree. A soil substrate brings with it some serious issues, like ammonia spikes. It is not "easy" by any stretch of the imagination.

I too have had planted tanks that flourished, and for well over 20 years, using plain gravel or (now) play sand. The lighting is the most important factor. Nutrients can be added but if the lighting is not balanced to begin with, it won't work out in the long run.

You mentioned osmocote substrate fertilizer--this is not a good supplement for an aquarium. Osmocote fertilizer is intended for terrestrial, not aquatic, plants, and they have differing nutrient requirements. The very high nitrate and phosphate levels in osmocote can cause algae issues.

Byron.

 

[Demeter32]

If you are set on doing dirt, then make sure you pick out the larger organic bits like twigs, leaves, any and every bug you see, acorns etc. You don't want to use dirt from areas with lots of pines and oaks, this being because the pine needles and oak leaves add acidity to the dirt. Find a nice hard wood forest with lots of maples and maybe a few oaks. I used worm castings/bedding that had dirt, leaves and moss in it from the summer's fishing trips. All the organic matter was broken down by the worms. Top with sand and you should be good to go. Keep an eye on the parameters for a solid couple months after planting and don't add fish till you are certain it's safe.


As the others said, plants should grow well so long as there is good light and proper nutrients. Perhaps you have too weak/strong lighting that the plants don't like?

 

[Tyler_Fishman]

Hmm, I just noticed that my plants have minimal root growth after pulling a few up, my cryptocornes are doing well, however my swords have few foots on them (they are new I've had them for 2 weeks) the osmocote I use is reccomended as a DIY alternative on YouTube They reccomended the indoor and outdoor osmocote and said their plants did fantastic on it, I figure that root growth takes a while and that's why my swords new leaves are glassy, I've purchased a LED bulb at Home Depot that reads 5000k for my clamp lamp, it's better than the incandescent bulb I was using before so I expect some positive changes

 

[Byron]

You need to screen anything you read on YouTube or anywhere else. Anyone can claim this or that without any knowledge of what they are talking about. At least on this forum we have peer review.

Osmocote is used by some, but it is risky. It will increase nitrate (which is not good for fish) and phosphates. This can cause algae issues. You won't see any of this in a couple weeks.

 

[Tyler_Fishman]

Hmm I suppose

 

[StevenF]

There are two types of Osmocote

The regular osmocote covers these elements (each letter is symbol for an auto on the periodic table).

N, P, K, S
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table
Osmocote plus covers macro and trace nutrients:

N, P, K, S Trace Mg, B, Cu, Fe, Mn, Mo, Zn

Plants need the following nutrients to grow
Macro: N, P, K, Ca, S Trace: B, Cl, Mn,Fe, Zn, Cu, Mo, Ni, Co
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_nutrition

Note the differences. If you are using osmocote plus you will be short Ca, Cl, Ni, Co. At best your plants will grow slowly and may be stunted. At worst you will get no growth, your plants may die, and you my get a algae bloom. The above deficiencies are common in most fertilizers on the market .Only a few like Flourish Comprehensive have all of them. Now if you have hard water you might have enough of the missing elements in your water to get good results. IF you have soft or are using RO or distilled water you probably don't have them all. If it is not on the label it is not in your tank!

Furthermore will all the others supplies the plants will grow until Ca, CL, Ni, and Co run out. It only takes a day for plants to deplete the water. Calcium chloride is used in Gh boosters and can be used to correct for two of the missing nutrients. Nickel chloride and cobalt chloride could be used to correct the remaining deficiencies but I don't know what the correct dosage for Nickel and cobalt are. Likely between 10 and 1 ppm, but that is just a guess.

Going to a dirt substrate might help for a few months. However eventually the soil will run out of nutrients and you will be right back to where your started. Also some soils are heavily depleted in nutrients, Especially tropical forest soils. Most of the nutrient may be in the trees instead of the soil. Some people have seen evidence of nutrients depletion in dirty aquarium in as little as 2 months. Those with hard water can go longer but eventually did tanks will need fertilizer.

 

[Tyler_Fishman]

I have

There are two types of Osmocote

The regular osmocote covers these elements (each letter is symbol for an auto on the periodic table).

N, P, K, S
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table
Osmocote plus covers macro and trace nutrients:

N, P, K, S Trace Mg, B, Cu, Fe, Mn, Mo, Zn

Plants need the following nutrients to grow
Macro: N, P, K, Ca, S Trace: B, Cl, Mn,Fe, Zn, Cu, Mo, Ni, Co
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_nutrition

Note the differences. If you are using osmocote plus you will be short Ca, Cl, Ni, Co. At best your plants will grow slowly and may be stunted. At worst you will get no growth, your plants may die, and you my get a algae bloom. The above deficiencies are common in most fertilizers on the market .Only a few like Flourish Comprehensive have all of them. Now if you have hard water you might have enough of the missing elements in your water to get good results. IF you have soft or are using RO or distilled water you probably don't have them all. If it is not on the label it is not in your tank!

Furthermore will all the others supplies the plants will grow until Ca, CL, Ni, and Co run out. It only takes a day for plants to deplete the water. Calcium chloride is used in Gh boosters and can be used to correct for two of the missing nutrients. Nickel chloride and cobalt chloride could be used to correct the remaining deficiencies but I don't know what the correct dosage for Nickel and cobalt are. Likely between 10 and 1 ppm, but that is just a guess.

Going to a dirt substrate might help for a few months. However eventually the soil will run out of nutrients and you will be right back to where your started. Also some soils are heavily depleted in nutrients, Especially tropical forest soils. Most of the nutrient may be in the trees instead of the soil. Some people have seen evidence of nutrients depletion in dirty aquarium in as little as 2 months. Those with hard water can go longer but eventually did tanks will need fertilizer.

I suppose that I should purchase root tabs then, thanks for the info

 

[StevenF]

I don't use root tabs but I would recommend SeaChem root tabs. . I looked at them some time ago and and I recall that they looked complete almost complete (missing nickel). I looked at API and found those were not complete. Always look at the label and verify all nutrients are present. Even with the API root tabs you might not get enough calcium (plants need a lot of it) Simply adding a sea shell to the aquarium can help maintain a constant low calcium level which should help.

 

[Byron]

I have been using Seachem's Flourish Tabs for a few years now. I will mention that I have very soft water with no mineral to speak of, so the only plant nutrients come from fish foods, tabs, and liquid fertilizer (Flourish Comprehensive).