Dangerous Dogs

[Tolak]

If it attacks, or behaves menacingly toward another animal or person it is put on the dangerous dog register.

Who determines what is menacingly? I’m sure with your experience having dogs together you have observed ritualized aggression. To a person unaccustomed to this it’s a dogfight, by their assertion one or the other if not both are acting menacingly. In every case I’ve dealt with it’s all show & no go; you can stick your hand in the middle of it and have nothing more than incidental tooth contact. I would hope those charged with making this determination are well versed in a dog’s body language. Actual dog/dog or dog/human aggression is an easy call, I’ve seen people flip out over what amounts to nothing more than canine bickering.

I firmly believe it should be compulsary for ALL dog owners to do a full obedience course.

I totally agree, all owners, before they get their dog as well as after. If you can test out without taking either class go for it, I’ve seen plenty of classes run by people who shouldn’t be teaching, and plenty of dog owners that never took a class who should be teaching.

Small dogs need to be trained & treated no differently than large dogs; they all have the same brain. In school the petite cheerleader gets the same education as the towering basketball player, it works the same way with dogs. Having been around terriers in the 20-pound range for my entire life, they get treated & taught the same way as a larger dog. They all have teeth, they all have the potential for aggression as mentioned, and can do damage for their size that would surprise many.

 

[Alasse]

That is determined by the Council appointed ranger (dogcatcher), they would then have to go through a set behaviour test.

My dog i lost earlier this year was checked, as a member of the public complained that he menaced them (which he certainly did for definate reasons) I got a visit from the ranger in regards to it, i stated my side, and thankfully had my dog on lead at the time, the ranger could see the dog had been through obedience and was under effective control, not the slobbering nutcase he turned into when the complainer went anywhere near him. I expained why the dog behaved the way he did toward this idiot. I had witnesses to the complainers torment of my dog. My dog was not declared dangerous, he was doing what any dog would do, protecting his family, property and himself. I told the Ranger straight out he is not stranger friendly but he wasnt vicious either. But you tease him and torment, you deserve what ya get.

My guy was not stranger friendly, he went to obedience because he was a menace to people, from a pup he had to be walked muzzled pre-obedience, as he would very literally launch himself teeth bared and anyone, very much a fear biter, you were too close you were target, owner included (me). Once he went through classes, he could be walked unmuzzled and was excellent providing no one did anything overly threatening toward him or his walker. Who in their right mind would keep a 80kg dog (my old guy), and not obedience train it?, specially knowing it could have VERY easy been turned into a very dangerous dog. I was mindful of it and kept him safe and kept the public safe with training.

The dog obedience school i use is Council accredited. They run the council testing, if your dog is able to pass the obedience test you get cheaper yearly registration. Excellent, very knowledgable people!

 

[moochy13]

Many people look at little FeeFee and think its harmless, cant do much, until its taken ya kids face off.

ANY dog can be dangerous, that is a fact, to not take that seriously is naive and idiotic

i assume you're not calling me naive and idiotic, at no point did i suggest small dogs cant be dangerous. yes, a small dog could be dangerous to a kid, but not as dangerous as a big dog. so my point is still valid. im simply pointing out the differences between dog size and how dangerous it can be percieved as. much of the 'little man' syndrome small dogs have is all front in my experience. ive got a lhasa apso, who will bark/growl at anything it comes across. however if a larger dog then moves towards him, he craps himself and shuts up. its all front.

you could say a kitten or a chinchilla, or a ferret could be very dangerous to little kids, but i dont think any adult would feel in danger faced by an angry chinchilla. to suggest all animals have the same danger level just because they could harm kids is short sighted. im talking about comparing 2 dogs of the same temperment, but vastly different sizes. they are simply not as dangerous as each other. a dog whose biggest teeth are half an inch long, with a mouth that opens about 3 inches, that stands shin height and weighs about 5kg is blatantly not as possibly dangerous as a dog who has teeth an inch and a half long, that stands at stomach height (so it can reach your face on its hind legs) and weighs 25kg.

pest control - i certainly wasnt suggesting all rotties are dangerous, my friend lives next door to one, and its one of the softest most ridiculous dogs ive ever seen

 

[Alasse]

No i wasnt calling you specifically an idiot..The idea that small dogs can not be as dangerous as a large dog is definately idiotic, and VERY shortsighted.
Most dog attacks involve dogs and kids!!


The owners below had such an idiotic outlook to small dogs not being dangerous

The most horrifying example of the lack of breed predictability is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family's Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed. Note, however, that they were bred to be watchdogs! The baby's uncle left the infant and the dog on a bed while the uncle prepared her bottle in the kitchen. Upon his return, the dog was mauling the baby, who died shortly afterwards. ("Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog," Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.)

 

[hanny93]

No matter how big the dog's mouth is, if it it around your throat it's pretty dangerous.

say you were sat down or led down because it was a sunny day in the park, you are just reading a book or sleeping, whatever.

A pom is quite easily able to reach your face, neck and chest and those teeth are sharp.

Yes big dogs have more opportunity to attack, because of their power, but small dogs tend to be a lot more snappy, a lot more nippy and a lot more aggressive, which i suppose is understandable because who wants to live their life with giants thundering around above them,

 

[Tolak]

small dogs tend to be a lot more snappy, a lot more nippy and a lot more aggressive, which i suppose is understandable because who wants to live their life with giants thundering around above them,

This is so incorrect. The only reason any dog behaves this way is because the owner allows it to. Size is irrelevant.

 

[hanny93]

small dogs tend to be a lot more snappy, a lot more nippy and a lot more aggressive, which i suppose is understandable because who wants to live their life with giants thundering around above them,

This is so incorrect. The only reason any dog behaves this way is because the owner allows it to. Size is irrelevant.

This is so my experience with every single small dog ive ever met, including a breeder of jack russells who has 9 dogs, all of which bark and snap at you until you tell them to be quiet.

 

[Tolak]

Honestly, that breeder is trash then. Those dogs are in no way properly socialized, and have no business being bred. Just because you can get them to reproduce doesn't mean you are a good breeder.

All the terriers I've owned, with the exception of a Yorkie, are the same size as a Jack Russel. While most all will bark if someone knocks on the door or rings the doorbell, once someone comes in there is little in the way of barking. Gus has his bark of joy, while very unique it is in no way aggressive, he's happy people are over. Think 3 Stooges, Moe Larry cheese, woooo woo woo woo woo.

There is absolutely no snapping, growling, or anything in any way aggressive, and never has been, as that is so out of line. The ones that will use their teeth in play really have to be instigated to do so, and some won't even attempt it. You can come in my house, have a seat, invite any of my 3 over, pick them up. Nope, no snap, growl, or any of that, as you open their mouths to look at their teeth, check out their ears, play with their toes, this is proper socialization.

From my experience this is more the norm, 7 dogs under 20 pounds so far in my lifetime, not counting yorkies & schnauzers owned by my uncles. More recently, between two Aussie terrier breeders, easily toss on at least 15 more dogs that did not behave that way. I guess I can add on the two chihuahuas across the street, the poodle mix from down the street, another smaller terrier mix from down the street, none behave the way you have mentioned.

 

[hanny93]

Nice one for just totally insulting one of my close friends but whatever.

I wasn't saying THEY were aggressive, i was saying they bark and get excited when someone even walks up the driveway, and that smaller dogs tend to be more aggressive.
How can they not be socialised properly? They are all well trained, they do everything, and i mean, everything she says when she says, and the rest of the family members. Do you really think she would trust a 2 year old around newborn pups if she didnt trust the mother to not be aggressive?
By snap I meant jump up etc, sorry if that is not your understanding of the word but it is mine. I've been bitten once by one of her dogs, which is essentially, a spastic and so would never be bred anyway. She vets every single dog she breeds to, she will not breed if it is not a nice ***** and she has her own stud dogs, so she knows exactly what blood is going in.

I actually can't believe you just called someone TRASH, when you have no idea who she is.

She's an excelent breeder, all she cares about is the good health and happiness of her dogs, and if you saw them you'd realise that. They are protective of her because she's on crutches.

 

[raptorrex]

all dog can be dengerous. what makes some dog worse is, dim witted owners. and as Tolak says, duff breeders. mind you,
as i have said before, i think all "breeders" are duff. constantly breeding, inherent weakness into their dogs, just to get a look they like. and here, i think, could lie the problem. dog "breeds" are so inter breed, it impossible to suggest most are not imbalanced, in some way mentally. it works that way in humans, just look at the weakness in the British aristocracy. (admittedly declining).

dogs should not be on a list. owners should be, by licence. and held responsible for both, the well being of the animal, and its actions in public.

as for the argument big verses small for aggression and danger. well the only dogs that have a go at mine, whilst walking. are the small dogs. indeed its the small dogs that come to my gate and yap snarl and try to bite him. i have never seen it from a bigger dog, even if they are not on a lead. it even happens whilst they are on their leads. I had a dog walker, recently, complain his dog had been nipped by mine, whilst he walked his dog (odd as my dog was in his garden at the time.) as it turns out. the owner was stood outside my gate (dog on its lead) allowing he dog to snap and snarl at mine. well the upshot was, his dog pocked it snout through the small gap it the gate slats, and got it lip bitten for its efforts. as he spoke to me he was on th phnoe to the RSPCA complaining about the incident. as the RSPCA saw no reason to speak to me about it. i assume they think like me. Dumb owner.

oh yeah, my dog it a seven stone (98lb) Rottweiler. and though i love him. i wouldn't let him near my daughter (10 but disabled). and wouldn't dream of taking him out off of the lead. I wouldn't think off holding him, outside a gate that help back another dog. now is that so hard?

 

[hanny93]

and as Tolak says, duff breeders. mind you,
as i have said before, i think all "breeders" are duff. constantly breeding, inherent weakness into their dogs, just to get a look they like. and here, i think, could lie the problem. dog "breeds" are so inter breed, it impossible to suggest most are not imbalanced, in some way mentally.

I'd just like to point out that shirley constantly brings new dogs into her stock, she never ever breeds a dog with any kind of weakness.

You obviously know nothing about decent breeders, how horrible to assume that all breeders breed for looks and money, they dont.

Your reply makes no sense, you are saying that it is the owners fault, then the breeders, then the dogs fault. make up your mind before slating people you obviously have no experience with.

 

[Ben M]

small dogs tend to be a lot more snappy, a lot more nippy and a lot more aggressive, which i suppose is understandable because who wants to live their life with giants thundering around above them,

This is so incorrect. The only reason any dog behaves this way is because the owner allows it to. Size is irrelevant.

I agree that I have found that a greater amount of smaller dogs are aggressive than larger dogs (In my experience). Personally, I believe that this is due to quite a lot of people who own small dogs (but by no means all owners of small dogs) think of their small dogs as their 'babies', and that they would never do anything wrong, so they don't properly discipline them.

That is what I've found with many people who I know that have little dogs. I'm not saying this is the case with everybody who has small dogs, as it obviously isn't.

and as Tolak says, duff breeders. mind you,
as i have said before, i think all "breeders" are duff. constantly breeding, inherent weakness into their dogs, just to get a look they like. and here, i think, could lie the problem. dog "breeds" are so inter breed, it impossible to suggest most are not imbalanced, in some way mentally.

I'd just like to point out that shirley constantly brings new dogs into her stock, she never ever breeds a dog with any kind of weakness.

You obviously know nothing about decent breeders, how horrible to assume that all breeders breed for looks and money, they dont.

Your reply makes no sense, you are saying that it is the owners fault, then the breeders, then the dogs fault. make up your mind before slating people you obviously have no experience with.

I agree that the way many species of dog are bred is ridiculous. For example, the way that German shepherds are bred to have short back legs, which makes them nearly crippled. And king Charles spaniels which have really bad brain issues due to their breeding.

 

[hanny93]

Alright then, what about the dog i was talking about inpartcular? Jack russells. There is no stud book for jack russels, just a general outline of features and sizers, for example, terrier face and shorter legs. How can you breed for that.


Anyway, this is really off topic, I was trying to see if anyone had an opinion on a dangerous dogs list and I got shot down for it.

Also raptorrex, i notice youve added a bit.
Why exactly would you not let your dog off the lead? do you not think it makes you an irresposible owner if you cannot control your own dog enough to let it near your own daughter? Because that really contradicts what already mixed up views you seem to have.

 

[Caprichoso]

I think we've established that ANY dog can be dangerous in varying degrees when it has either not been trained properly, has been abused/neglected in some way, isn't exercised enough or isn't socialized properly. Dogs can also be dangerous when protecting their owners or another animal in their "pack". Maybe the dog has a mental problem or a brain injury that caused some sort of aggressive behaviour. BUT, overall, a dog shouldn't be faulted for bad behaviour because in MOST cases it's because of the lack of something on the owner's part.

As far as small dogs being more nippy or barky or whatever you want to call it, it has nothing to do with the dog being small, it has to do with the owner not feeling the need to properly train the dog in the first place. Any dog can be trained to NOT bark and NOT jump and NOT bite and whatever dumb dog tricks ya like. Yes some dogs are more prone to jumping and other things but that doesn't mean it can't be trained not to do it but it may make it more challenging to do so.

Certain breeds of dogs CAN be problematic when they are bought as a pet and put in the environment that isn't conducive to their genetics. If you buy a high energy dog and have it sit in your house all day and it doesn't get sufficient exercise and mental stimulation, your dog could get aggressive and/or have other behavioural issues. I don't like when people buy dogs without understanding what the dog does as a breed,(retreiver, herder, etc) because the animal may not get the care it needs and then we wonder why our dog is so bad.

Animals always get the short end of the stick when humans can't sort it out. It's very sad.

 

[raptorrex]

and as Tolak says, duff breeders. mind you,
as i have said before, i think all "breeders" are duff. constantly breeding, inherent weakness into their dogs, just to get a look they like. and here, i think, could lie the problem. dog "breeds" are so inter breed, it impossible to suggest most are not imbalanced, in some way mentally.

I'd just like to point out that shirley constantly brings new dogs into her stock, she never ever breeds a dog with any kind of weakness.

You obviously know nothing about decent breeders, how horrible to assume that all breeders breed for looks and money, they dont.

Your reply makes no sense, you are saying that it is the owners fault, then the breeders, then the dogs fault. make up your mind before slating people you obviously have no experience with.

sorry, I'm not talking about dogs that are too closely related, here. I talking about the continued breeding of, harmful, genetic traits. just because that's what the PEOPLE (???) who buy them want.
things like the inherent weakness in the hind legs, actually hip, on German shepherds. the stupid practice of breeding Pug nosed dog. even though everybody knows it distressing to the animal. these are just two. but most ,if not all, Pedigree (now that's a laugh of a title) suffer from some form of genetic faults or disorders. and all because of vain owners that buy them. and the halfwits that breed them.

it all started out ok. breeding dogs to do jobs we needed. but then the idiots came by. breeding dogs to match their own vanity. shame more of them are not as bright as the dog they buy/breed.

its not just dogs. take milk cows. the Holstein we (in the UK) get most of our milk from, is such a sickly animal. it needs the entire drug cabinet, each day, just to survive.

either way. unless these people mend their ways. it wont be may decades till we have no more,viable, domestic dogs left. and all because of human vanity. that vanity is, still, stopping them changing their ways.

please point out where i said the dog was at fault? my reply makes sense. but not if its not read properly. a dog behaviour it, totality, down to it /breederowner. the little dogs behaviour was natural. small thing tend to make lots of noise, to make up for lack of stature. the one at fault, put quite plainly, was the owner. who brought the dog to the gate and allowed it to snap at Tylor.

I will continue to "slate" dog breeders, till they sort out their game and start breeding things that help the dog. not massage the ego if it breeder/owner. lol, if you think i am on my own? you ar probably more out of touch, then you think.

do you really think those hair less abominations (Chihuahua i think) that people (again a laughable title) carry around with them, have any place in nature?

lol, you worry about me "slating" your breeding friends. yet ignore the damage they are doing to the dog they breed. if a breeder specialises in one breed. he/she/ (it) is cross breeding from the same family. those blood lines are now so strained, as to endanger their very existence.

don't take my word for it. just ask any animal genetic specialist. breeders have already done, inestimable damage to the genetics of the domestic dog. as as you so clearly showed. owner/breeders are more interested in their reputation, not their dogs.

honestly. from your own comments. your friend is a duff breeder. and that's hard. being bader in a den of bad boys. now that's an achievement.