Daize's Planted Photo Journal - 64L 1Wpg Low Light

[daizeUK]

Hygrophila is displaying the same symptoms - rapid growth on top but the bottom leaves are melting away.  All my stem plants have done this.  It might be insufficient light but I'm starting to suspect it might be related to nutrients.  Prime suspect might be lack of phosphorus as I'm not dosing any (I was hoping my hard water would have enough already).
 
Tenth batch of fry born today.  Oh my God there are so many fry in the tank!  I think there's about 30 tiddlers hiding in the moss.
 
I'm settled on a Juwel Lido 120 for my next tank.  That should give me 120 litres capacity in only a 2ft space which will be enough for a couple of small shoals.  I just need to wait for one to pop up on the second hand market now!

 

[SLIM]

If your lacking phosphates you will have green spot algae and green slime algae, thats the give away

 

[daizeUK]

I've been watching out for GSA and haven't seen any which is why I thought P levels must be alright.  I've now read that lack of phosphates can be responsible for other kinds of algae too.
 
The kind of algae I've got, I'm not exactly sure what it is, there is some green stuff that grows on the sand and some brown/black stuff on the leaves.  I think it might be a combination of diatoms and GDA but I'm not sure.  This week I increased my photoperiod by cutting out the 2 hr afternoon siesta and the algae seems to be growing faster in response.
 
The water quality report for my area is here http/www.southeastwater.co.uk/media/104471/buckhurst.pdf and it doesn't mention phosphates or potassium at all so I guess I was wrong about that! 
I dose Seachem Flourish which contains a bit of both but I'm not sure if that's enough.
 
If my slow growing plants (anubias, microsorum, crypts & moss) are all flourishing but fast growing plants are suffering then that points to a nutrient deficiency doesn't it?

 

[SLIM]

Are you dosiny carbon? Or just trace?

 

[daizeUK]

Are you dosiny carbon? Or just trace?

 
Easycarbo daily and Flourish weekly.  I initially thought the melting was due to lack of carbon but it seems not.

 

[SLIM]

Are you dosiny carbon? Or just trace?

 
Easycarbo daily and Flourish weekly.  I initially thought the melting was due to lack of carbon but it seems not.

Theirs your problem. For starters if your dosing carbon, trace/florish needs to be dosed daily not weekly. Also if your dosing carbon you also need to dose additional macro ferts such as potassium nitrate and phosphate. Its no wonder your getting algae tbh. The trace amounts of potassium in florish just isnt enough for a high tech tank. Neither are the nitrates and phosphates from the fish waste. These macro elements must be dosed alongside your trace and carbon daily

 

[daizeUK]

I have to admit that as a plant newbie I was very much afraid of dosing ferts.  I wanted to believe that the plants could get by with whatever was in the tapwater without any effort from me.  I also couldn't accept that dosing liquid carbon really counted as high tech - after all it doesn't involve gauges and drop checkers and gawd knows what else!
 
I've spent most of the day reading up on EI dosing and I feel a lot more confident about ferts now.  I know that my water is already full of nitrates (like 40ppm) so I probably should be adding potassium phosphate to complete the nutrients.
 
There is something that doesn't quite fit though.  I had the same algae and leaf melting before I started dosing EasyCarbo and the carbon has not fixed either problem.  So perhaps instead of adding more ferts I should simply remove the carbon, reduce the lighting and keep it low tech.
 
Can you explain why Flourish needs to be added daily?  I thought this was only essential if shrimp are present, to spread out the copper dose.
 
Thanks for your input SLIM!

 

[snazy]

The problem might as well be lack of flow. I've kept hydrophila for a long time now and the ones I plant behind driftwood and such big decor that blocks the flow always have melt on the lower leaves. Try positioning one stalk for testing purposes in a spot with lots of flow where all the stem gets blown and see.

 

[daizeUK]

Good point Snazy, I'm not particularly happy with my flow right now.  My new external filter should fix that when I get it installed - just waiting to order some parts and media.

 

[SLIM]

All high tech means at the end of the day is"more work" tbh that's it lol
Theirs really no need to be afraid of dosing ferts you can't really overdose
Remember ferts don't cause algae, lack of ferts cause algae.

When you introduce Co2 or carbon to the equation, the plants growth speeds up and in turn the plant will demand more nutrients.
If the key nutrients are not there the plant will suffer and algae will step in.
This is why it's important to does ferts every day especially with high techs to make sure this doesn't happen.

With high tech planted tanks is all about providing the perfect environment for your plants

The reason your plants where also melting when your tank was a low tech is probably because your track lacked a key nutrient such as potassium or phosphate. Adding carbon didn't replenish theses Marco elements it just increased there demand for them so your plants carried on melting. Or like snazzy said it could also relate back to a flow problem. I'm guessing it's a bit of both here.
As for the algae, low tech almost always suffer from algae as the plants can't grow efficient enough to out compete the algae. For plants to out compete algae in most cases all you need is Co2 whether it be gas or liquid.

If it was me I would carry on dosing carbon but also add macros along with my trace. But if you want go back to low tech and stop dosing carbon and shorten your photoperiod then thats entirely your choice

 

[daizeUK]

I'll show you what sort of algae I'm talking about.  I usually do my tank maintenance on Tuesdays so it's been six days since it was last cleaned.  Ugh it feels like I'm showing you my dirty laundry basket lol
 

 
Spot the photobomb fry, it's impossible to take a photograph of anywhere in my tank without a fry getting in the shot
 
So that's it, a little bit of algae on the broad leaves of anubias and crypts and it also sticks to the sand and looks a bit unsightly.  So I wipe it off the leaves and turn the sand over a bit each week.  It's not a major disaster but I'd prefer to get rid of it so the tank looks clean all week long!
 
The melting stems are more of a concern to me.  I'm really pleased with the slow-growing plants in my tank but they can't give me that lush bushiness that I was hoping for!  If I go back to low-tech then it seems I'll be stuck with anubias, java fern and crypts for ever more so I'd like to give ferts a try and see if it makes a big difference.  Can't hurt to try it out!

 

[snazy]

That looks like diatoms to me Daize.
The causes could be too much light, lack of flow, detritus and trace ammonia levels which normally don't get detected on the test.
I'd decrease the intensity of light/light duration, improve the flow and flow pattern, clean the filter and do more water changes for the time being until it stops appearing. Don't just wipe it off, the fallen particles just re-attach if not removed via water changes. Nerite snails and ottos will clean it up in no time if that's an option.
 
On another hand, I am not sure which species of hydrophila you have, but mine grows lush in low tech/non fertilized tanks without problem. The low light plants like anubias grow really well in low tech tanks in shady spots. Mine flower too from time to time. They'd probably appreciate some phosphate and some micro ferts from time to time depending on your water. Hydrophila likes potassium and can show defficiencies once that runs low. Of course it's a lot easier to dose the whole lot instead as it's hard identifying the exact cause sometimes, or it can be even multiple causes.

 

[daizeUK]

I agree it looks like diatoms, I used to get more of them than I do now.  They've returned slightly this week and I can only assume it's because of the photoperiod changes.  I also get some green algae on the glass but it's not too bad.
 
When I clean I start by wiping off the algae with the filter running and then I do a 50% water change and squeeze the filter sponge to get as much of it out of the water column as possible.
 
This is a list of the plants I currently have:
Anubias nana
Anubias heterophylla
Microsorum mini
Microsorum trident
Cryptocoryne amicorum
Cryptocoryne balansae
Cryptocoryne beckettii
Cabomba
Hygrophila polysperma
Limnophila sessiliflora
Java Moss
Taiwan Moss
Chladophlora moss balls
 
In the past I've also had Vallisneria spiralis and Egeria densa, both of which melted and I chucked them out.  There's a tiny bit of vallis front right that I keep just so I can see if it ever grows back!
 
As you can see - I've got nothing that should really need carbon or ferts!  They're all basic beginner plants, with the exception of the Limnophila which isn't doing very well.  It does seem odd to be going high tech with such supposedly easy plants!

 

[snazy]

When you see algae, reducing the photoperiod/light intensity can always help. It can at least slow down its growth until you deal with the initial cause and also balance out issues like too much light and not enough CO2/nutritients.
 
All plants benefit from nutritients and co2, but light/co2/nutritients are so closely related that by getting one wrong, it drives shortage/demand for the others, and if one doesn't take all in consideration of this important relationship, algae appears. Obviously as well, the delivery of CO2 and nutritients are also very much dependant on consistent and equal flow around the tank.
 
From what I know also, in a CO2 enriched tanks the plants also produce waste faster, which is normally a fine miniature dust covering the leaves. Hence regular large water changes are a must as the tank/filters can't deal with that so fast and the plants suffer from it too.

 

[daizeUK]

I've reduced my full light photoperiod and I'll see if that improves the algae growth rate this week.
 
Here's a picture from this morning
 

 
I removed the last few emersed leaves from the cryptocoryne beckettii so they have turned into compact brown leaved little plants now.  The Taiwan moss is really filling in the back right corner and I will have to trim it soon.  I'm not happy with the foreground, the java moss grows like crazy and looks a bit untidy.  I'm trying to figure out what I can do with it.  Any ideas?