SnailPocalypse
Fish Addict
So I have been cycling a 5 gallon for about 3 weeks now and for ammonia all I have been using is pond snails and algae wafers for ammonia should this work well?
Cycling.
- Thread starter SnailPocalypse
- Start date
StandbySetting
Fish Aficionado
Are testing your water? You need to aim for 5ppm of ammonia.
OP
OP
SnailPocalypse
Fish Addict
Welp I would love to test my water if one I had the money for a test kit and second if I could drive to go test my water.
StandbySetting
Fish Aficionado
Before buying fish you really should be buying a test kit.
Mrscmurray
Fish Fanatic
I believe you can pick up a test kit for around $20 over in America. If that's a little out of your price range at present maybe order some strips so you have something to go on at least for now.
I don't drive either, I do love the joys of being able to order these things online [emoji39]
Sent from my HTC Desire 626 using Tapatalk
I have to say, using snails and algae wafers as a form of ammonia is a poor choice to be honest.
Why?
Well, you need to dose ammonia in specific amounts and at set routines of the cycling process.
So, how are you going to know exactly how much you've dosed and how often.
Short answer - you can't know this, no one can really, at least not without doing LOTS of tests and having a general idea of how ammonia and fishless cycling works.
I would urge you to read this Fishless Cycle article if you have not already done so, its extremely helpful and does take a few times to read it to get an idea of how this works and what to look out for. Took me a while to get my head around it and actually it's more simple than you may think.
Do try get a test kit, a liquid or powder based kit preferably as they tend to be more accurate and reliable compared to the cheap strip paper dip kits. API Freshwater Master Test kit is a popular choice amongst many member here, its fairly good value for money and readily available online or in some LFS.
And you should have a source of ammonia (NOT algae wafers, fish food, prawns or snails etc), a popular form of ammonia source such as Kleen Off for example or a dedicated aquarium cycle ammonia as well as a syringe or dropper for more accurate dosing, this way you are in control of the dosing amounts and when.
There are other choices of bottled ammonia that are available but tried and tested sources tend to be the better choice really rather than risking a choice that may contain harmful to fish and shrimps chemicals.
Most of all, patience is required and we're here to help should you ever get stuck or unsure
Am afraid this is simply not recommended, dosing at 5ppm ammonia may actually result in too much nitrite and nitrate being produced that can potentially cause a stall or worse, a crashed cycle. A much safer figure is 3ppm ammonia, I have done this with ALL my cycling at 3ppm and not encountered any problems at all by closely monitoring and following the Fishless Cycle.
Do remember, fish and shrimps in most sizes of tanks (as long as not way overstocked and full of plecos or other fishy poop machines) will not actually yield more ammonia than 3ppm at all in which the bacterial colony can easily deal with at 3ppm max without causing any spikes or mini cycles.
The Fishless Article states 3ppm for each full ammonia doses (except in "snack dose" at 1ppm) for the reasons stated above as well as much more infomation than I can write in one post, do bear in mind that this article is written by a extremely knowledgable and experienced fishkeeper who spent much of his time researching and finding out exactly what works best for ALL fishkeepers, new and experienced keepers alike.
It well worth keeping an open mind and to read and research as much as possible before actually starting your Fishless Cycle and to research potential stocking of your tank upon successful cycling that will result in a healthy and very enjoyable tank
OP
OP
SnailPocalypse
Fish Addict
Hmm well In my 10 gallon whichis now cycled with neons in it I did this for cycling I did fish in cycling with a betta and a snail and a cory all of which died after the cycle except the cory anyways I put them in there let them produce ammonia then used the tetra safestart stuff than I have kept stored and on my 2nd week of cycling the tank got a bacteria bloom that went away later that week.So I know I can cycle a tank without a test kit or anything special its just a matter of what to use.I usaully put a alge wafer in there every 2-3 daysMy sister may be willing to let me borrow a betta to cycle the tank.But I will try to buy the test kit When I get the money,which wont be for 2-4 weeks.
Ok, you have just described Fish in Cycle, which really not a recommended method by this forum simply due to the simple fact it harms the fish/es you used for cycling as you already know with the Betta dying, very likely his life was drastically shortened by being exposed to ammonia and nitrtite long term during the cycle.
But it has been known for Bettas to be kept in small tanks that are uncycled but you MUST do routine 100% water changes to keep the water clean and ammonia to a minimum.
Quoted from Betta Splendens Caresheet -
"Cleaning and Maintenance: Betta tanks, no matter their size, require regular cleaning. In an uncycled betta tank, one must do frequent water changes. The frequency and amount of water changes depends on the size of the tank with smaller tanks needing water changes more frequently than larger tanks.
In a properly cleaned betta tank, ammonia and nitrite should both be 0 parts per million (ppm) with nitrates being as low as possible.
Cleaning Schedule by Tank Size (for uncycled tanks)
1 gallon -- 100% water change every 2 days
2.5 gallon -- 100% water change every 4 to 5 days
5 gallon -- 100% water change once every 7 days
2.5+ gallons – 100% water changes are best done in smaller more frequent amounts. Example – 2.5 gallon receiving a water change every 2 days of 50% to equal 100% in 4 days.
(In a large, cycled tank [established, not currently cycling] you should change roughly 25% of the water weekly using a gravel vacuum, and test your water parameters often; ammonia and nitrite should be 0 ppm, while nitrate should be kept at less than 20 ppm.)"
If you REALLY HAVE to do a Fish in Cycle, then please read these articles -
Rescuing A Fish In Cycle Gone Wild - Part I
Rescuing A Fish In Cycle Gone Wild - Part Il
Fish in cycling is a far more complicated and lengthier process than doing Fish in Cycles, care must be taken to ensure the stocking is kept in the best water parameter conditions possible.
But it has been known for Bettas to be kept in small tanks that are uncycled but you MUST do routine 100% water changes to keep the water clean and ammonia to a minimum.
Quoted from Betta Splendens Caresheet -
"Cleaning and Maintenance: Betta tanks, no matter their size, require regular cleaning. In an uncycled betta tank, one must do frequent water changes. The frequency and amount of water changes depends on the size of the tank with smaller tanks needing water changes more frequently than larger tanks.
In a properly cleaned betta tank, ammonia and nitrite should both be 0 parts per million (ppm) with nitrates being as low as possible.
Cleaning Schedule by Tank Size (for uncycled tanks)
1 gallon -- 100% water change every 2 days
2.5 gallon -- 100% water change every 4 to 5 days
5 gallon -- 100% water change once every 7 days
2.5+ gallons – 100% water changes are best done in smaller more frequent amounts. Example – 2.5 gallon receiving a water change every 2 days of 50% to equal 100% in 4 days.
(In a large, cycled tank [established, not currently cycling] you should change roughly 25% of the water weekly using a gravel vacuum, and test your water parameters often; ammonia and nitrite should be 0 ppm, while nitrate should be kept at less than 20 ppm.)"
If you REALLY HAVE to do a Fish in Cycle, then please read these articles -
Rescuing A Fish In Cycle Gone Wild - Part I
Rescuing A Fish In Cycle Gone Wild - Part Il
Fish in cycling is a far more complicated and lengthier process than doing Fish in Cycles, care must be taken to ensure the stocking is kept in the best water parameter conditions possible.
StandbySetting
Fish Aficionado
First off apologies for the previous post, thanks to Charlie for the correction, memory failed me.
Personally I believe doing a fish in cycle without a test kit to monitor water quality is just reckless and deeply unfair on any fish you intend to use.
I'd advise waiting until you can buy a test kit before cycling the tank - otherwise anything you do is pure guess work and fish are likely to suffer as a consequence. Test kits are inexpensive now a days, over here in the U.K. you can pick up an API test kit for under £20, that makes more financial sense than replacing dying fish, not only that but you prevent the harm of them in the first place.
Given you already have a tank set up when the time comes to cycle this one and you have a test kit, you could seed the filter with some media from your existing tank to speed up the cycling process.
Personally I believe doing a fish in cycle without a test kit to monitor water quality is just reckless and deeply unfair on any fish you intend to use.
I'd advise waiting until you can buy a test kit before cycling the tank - otherwise anything you do is pure guess work and fish are likely to suffer as a consequence. Test kits are inexpensive now a days, over here in the U.K. you can pick up an API test kit for under £20, that makes more financial sense than replacing dying fish, not only that but you prevent the harm of them in the first place.
Given you already have a tank set up when the time comes to cycle this one and you have a test kit, you could seed the filter with some media from your existing tank to speed up the cycling process.
OP
OP
SnailPocalypse
Fish Addict
Sorry if it seemed like I was going to do a fish in cycled by all means im not goanna do a fish in cycle.And yes I am goanna put cycling on hold and am actually now goanna save up for a test kit so no worrys I will be getting a test kit and pure ammonia soon istead of fish in.
Is it just me or is this cycling a tank more complicated than it needs to be. Why not just order from a reputable breeder a seeded filter? When I read posts of these people trying to cycle tanks for what seems extended periods when for little time and cost could have a tank cycled almost immediately I wonder why? Am I missing something? Not promoting any particular breeder but AngelPlus can get you a seeded sponge for little money and save you time and possible frustration in getting a cycled tank.
Well, not everyone knows a reputable breeder in which they can ask for some filter media, I don't for one.
A new fish keeper just starting in the hobby is unlikely to know anyone in the fishkeeping industry of good repute, there are exceptions of course but the vast majority of newbies will not know who to ask for seeded filter media.
It's a source of debate whether one should ask or buy from their LFS for seeded filter media as most LFS run their systems off one large bio mechanical media type filter that's runs through every tank. Problem with that, there could be a whole host of pathogens and potential risks of diseases from stressed or dead fish in a number of their tanks that could be passed onto your filter and tank via seeded media that may cause all manners of problems.
However, it's a good suggestion ONLY if the source of filter media is from a tank and filter that's fully established and healthy.
How do you tell if it's healthy or not if it's from someone or someplace you do not know that well?
Therein lies the dilemma for both new keepers as well as experienced keepers.
The risk is there but the idea is good one for trying to get a fast, almost instant, cycle for your filter and tank.
Of course once you have a established tank, easiest thing in the world is to take a little filter media from that filter to a new tank you're setting up but a newbie is likely not to have that luxury.
You are certainly correct that it should be a reputable breeder. I would not advise otherwise. I mentioned AngelPlus because of personal experience using their seeded filters. I'm confident that if you research them and particularly Steve's articles on quarantining etc. you can be as confident as possible using one of their filters. It's fine to do the fishless cycle I just notice a lot of posts from people having difficulty getting tanks cycled.
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