Cycling My 10 Gal.?

[VanillaShake112]

I'm setting up my 10 gallon tank for guppies, Neon Tetras, a female betta, a snail. (maybe some ghost shrimp) This is the chart that I came up with using this...http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-the-hobby/113861/Fishless-Cycling/ Thanks! Here it is..........

1) set up the tank with clean, dechlorinated water.

Is this the time to add the water treatment?

2) Let the water settle for a few days before adding the ammonia.

3) Make sure the water is at least in the mid to upper 80’s, and extra aeration via an air stone and air pump.

(Find out how much ammonia to add.)

4) add your ammonia to raise the level to 4 to 5 ppm. And simply wait on the ammonia to drop back to around 1 ppm.

About how long will it take for the water to drop to 1ppm? About 1 week if I’m correct.

5) Test daily to see what the ammonia reading is.

6) Once you see a drop in the ammonia, test for nitrite. There should be some present.

7) When the ammonia drops back to about near zero, add enough to raise it back to about 3 to 4 ppm begin testing the nitrite daily.

8) Every time the ammonia drops back to zero, raise it back up to 3 to 4 ppm and continue to check nitrites.

9) Once the ammonia is dropping from around 4 ppm back to zero in 12 hours or less you have sufficient bacteria to handle the ammonia your fish load produces. Continue to add ammonia daily as you must feed the bacteria that have formed or they will begin to die off.

10) Once the bacteria are able to process 4 or 5 ppm of ammonia back to zero ammonia and nitrite in about 10 to 12 hours. You are officially cycled.

About how many weeks will it take before the tank is completely cycled and ready for fish?

I’m using the “Add and Wait” Method, so before I add the fish am I supposed to do a big water change before adding the fish? Or is that just with the “Add Daily” Method?

Also, what does a spike mean?

I got this kit……….

http/www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...cfm?pcatid=4454

When is a good time to start testing for pH?

What do you think? If there are any tips or anything that anyone has I would be glad to hear! (sorry for all of the questions )

 

[Colin_T]

1), yes & no, you can add dechlorinator when you first add water if you like but if there are no fish going into the tank straight away, you don't need to add it. The chlorine will come out by itself over the next 24 hours. Normally dechlorinator is added to tap water before it is added to a tank with fish in.

2) you can add ammonia as soon as the tank is set up. The chlorine in the tap water does not affect the ammonia.

3) having the water temperature around 28-30C will cause the beneficial filter bacteria to grow faster. The bacteria are aerobic and require oxygen. Having an airstone bubbling away in the tank will maximise the oxygen levels in the water and help the bacteria grow.

4) The ammonia will start to drop when the good bacteria are eating it. The more bacteria in the filter the faster the levels will drop. You normally add ammonia each day trying to keep the levels around 4-5ppm. You might find during the first week or so the level stays around 3-4ppm and you don't need to add much. then one day the level will drop rapidly and this means the first lot of filter bacteria have developed.

It generally takes about 4 weeks to fully cycle a new tank. It can be less time if you use some filter material from an established tank and if the oxygen levels stay high. It can take longer in some tanks and 8 weeks isn't uncommon.

The big water change on the day before you add fish is to dilute or remove the nitrates that will have built up from the cycling process. When the tank is finished cycling simply drain most of the water out and refill it with dechlorinated water that has a similar temperature and PH to the tank water. this gives you clean water with low nitrates and an established filter.

An ammonia or nitrite spike is where the ammonia/nitrite levels suddenly goes up from 0 to 1 or more ppm. You get a sudden rise/ spike in the levels of ammonia and it is bad for the fish.

Don't know about the kit, sorry.

You can test the PH as soon as you want and as often as you want. Check the PH of your tap water and monitor that as well.
Wash any test solution off your hands with soapy water because they are poisonous if ingested. If you can keep the kits cool they will last for longer.

 

[pastabake]

It is probably better to add the dechlorinator as chlorine or chloramines in the water will inhibit the growth of the bacteria. So doing so will save you a day or two in the cycle.

edit - If you are using an airstone and your water is treated with chlorine, it will degass pretty quickly, most likely in less than a day - chloramines on the otherhand do not degass.

 

[waterdrop]

(you sound like you are doing fine, so the following extra details are there if you want some, otherwise ignore!)

0) Before setting up you might want to verify that you are happy with your physical filter as that is really what is getting cycled. Is the flow rate sufficient for your needs (typical recommendation is 5 full exchanges per hour (ie. 50G per hour).. but live plants and bettas sometimes do better with slightly less and heavy stocking sometimes gets more, up to 7 exchanges. If you stick to the small community you are describing, the a typical HOB with a rate somewhere near 50G/H should be fine. In a 10G an internal or cannister would be fine too! Another nicety would be to learn about and understand the filter media choices (eg. which part is mech filtration, which part bio, carbon not needed, etc.)

1) As Colin and Pasta mention, now might be the time to phone your water authority or chk their website and determine once and for all whether they use just chlorination or if they use chloramination. With chlorination you have the option of gassing out the chlorine, just nice to know. With chloramination you have even more reason to make sure you use your dechlor product correctly. Write down the answer in your log book along with your tap water results from your new test kit. You probably shouldn't be using any other treatments other than your dechlor product. Be warry if LFS told you to use anything else and check it with members here.

2) I agree with Colin, no need to wait. Your ammonia's not likely to go down right away anyway. I now recommend substrate and live plants at this point if you plan to have them at all. You can also begin the habit of testing the pH. If the pH drops to 6.2 or below the bacteria won't grow and you'll need a full water change and recharge of ammonia & post here about it!

3) I agree with Colin, 30C/86F is the upper ideal (and a good choice seemingly) for your bacteria soup cooking temperature. Airstones/surface agitation definately needed and if you must turn the airstones off at night, consider lowering your temperature at those times, although it is ideal for all this to stay stable around the clock. Double check your calculations of the amt of ammonia to add. If you use a dropper, make not of the number of times you refill the dropper - you may be able to just use squirts rather than counting drops in the future after you get used to it.

4) Don't hold your breath. It could easily take two weeks to start dropping. But definately do your daily test and note day of cycle, date, time, and any test results and any ammonia added to your logbook.

5) (daily test for ammonia) While waiting for it to drop and prior to the nitrite spike, the test is indeed daily. Once the ammonia is dropping quickly you may need to test more than once a day to determine if it is yet dropping it within 10 to 12 hours (the completion test for ammonia) and indeed, you should plan the timing of your tests so you will be home to do it! Much later in the waiting phase for the nitrites to drop, you can get away with skipping many ammonia tests as you will know they now always drop to zero within 10 hours and you will less often need reassurance of this. (your nitrite testing will have become prominant at this point.)

6) Agreed. Some ammonia will begin to be processed through to nitrite pretty early on. Your tests will show this but it won't be the nitrite spike, it will just be lower numbers.

7) Lets be clear about the breakpoint: you are raising ammonia to 4-5ppm -prior- to the nitrite spike and the "ability to drop ammonia within 10-12 hours" -After- you acheive those things, you really do want to -change- and only add ammonia to the 3-4ppm (really 2ppm can be fine) level -daily- (note: daily means daily, not whenever they've dropped the ammonia to zero!) There are two reasons: Mainly you don't want floods of nitrites (1ppm ammonia creates 2.7ppm of nitrite!) so you now add back -less- ammonia. Secondly, you -do- want to be sure to add that 2 or 3 or so ppm of ammonia each day because you want a minimum maintenance level of food to be maintained for the ammonia-eating bacteria (but don't worry, they don't die off too quickly if you forget.)

8) Yes, now you are in your longer phase of waiting for Nitrite to drop. These are slower to develop than the first species.

9) Nitrites: Your nitrite test will continue to show nitrites (API test purple) seemingly forever. One day all of a sudden they will drop to zero (API test sky blue) Then you must begin timing your tests more carefully to see when the nitrites can be dropped by the bacteria within 10-12 hours (the completion test for nitrites)

10) Once your nitrite completion test is passed, it is ideal to have a "watch week". You can now ease back up to 4ppm ammonia each day and verify that -both- ammonia and nitrites are dropped to a clear zero within 10-12 hours. If your filter can do this for consistently for one week, you have the best confidence possible that it is a super-solid bio-filter and you haven't missed any of the signs of a problem.

How many weeks? (the 64K$ question!) If you get mature media from someone it all could happen in days. If your live plants jump start your bacteria it could be done in a week or two. If you're normal it could take 3 or 4 weeks. If you're unlucky it could go over 8 weeks. Extreme patience is sometimes called for here. Good notes of every action and thought is a plus later.

The big water change at the end? Yes, you always do that. The water is a sometimes a soup optimized for raising bacteria. You want fresh dechlored water now down at fish temperatures, then add a decent load of your most hardy fish from your stocking list and do it before your bacteria die from lack of ammonia. Plan your further fish introductions over time going toward the last and most delicate species. Keep testing your water. Begin establishing your weekly water change habits. Begin establishing your monthly filter clean habits (tank water only to clean!)

What does a spike mean? With your API test, a nitrite spike is when you drop the 5 blue drops in and they turn dark purple (even weird blue/green in purple) immediately and sink to the bottom - as RDD says, when they do that you don't even need to wait the 5 minutes, you already know they are "spiked" (at 5.0ppm+)

Your link to the test kit? Yes, the API Freshwater Master Test Kit is what I and many here use and like. There are others just as good I believe, from Hagen and maybe RedSea but the API is very popular and has good matching of test colors to the charts.

Test and record your baseline tap water and even retest it periodically when doing water changes after longer time periods. You can record whether the water is clear or has turned milky from a bacterial bloom but bacterial blooms are normal and are not a sign to take any particular action. If you use lights and live plants and have a significant lighting period, you may get algae, even long stringy ugly brown algae all over your gravel and plants - this is normal and can be cleaned at the end.

The tests and numbers are not chemistry. You have live cells and dozens of uncontrolled variables. Being super-detailed and worried is not necessary, you will see the trends and they may come very slowly. It varies enormously for individuals. Members love it when you post up and ask questions.

Always weigh my or any other comments against those of other members.

Best of Luck and hope to see your progress from time to time,
~~waterdrop~~

 

[darryl864]

I too am in the middle of my cycling process and have added dechlorinater to the tank as you have. I messed up a bit at the start and added too much ammonia so had to syphon off water straight away. I have the same water test kit as you and find that once your ammonia level is over 4ppm it is difficult to compare the colour of the test sample. Also the colours on the card go from 4ppm to 8ppm so an 5's 6's & 7's are guesswork!

My cycle has gone as follows:
Day 1 Ammonia about 7-8 ppm
Day 2 Ammonia slightly less
Day 3 No test taken and have lots of bits in the water
Will test on day 4 and if a drop in ammonia is seen I will test for nitrites

With regard to the PH I tested mine early on as I have read that if it goes too low (below 6) it can stall the cycling process (mine is PH 8).

Darryl

 

[backtotropical]

Hi VanillaShake and to TFF,

The guys have pretty much covered it, so i don't have much to add, but there is one thing.

When you buy your ammonia, try if possible to get one which tells you the ammonia concentration of the solution (9.5% is common). If you can get one which specifies, it is much easier to work out how much ammonia to add, and the ammonia calculator here will actually calculate it for you.

Good luck with your cycle and if you have any questions, don't be afraid to ask.

Cheers

BTT

 

[waterdrop]

I too am in the middle of my cycling process and have added dechlorinater to the tank as you have. I messed up a bit at the start and added too much ammonia so had to syphon off water straight away. I have the same water test kit as you and find that once your ammonia level is over 4ppm it is difficult to compare the colour of the test sample. Also the colours on the card go from 4ppm to 8ppm so an 5's 6's & 7's are guesswork!

My cycle has gone as follows:
Day 1 Ammonia about 7-8 ppm
Day 2 Ammonia slightly less
Day 3 No test taken and have lots of bits in the water
Will test on day 4 and if a drop in ammonia is seen I will test for nitrites

With regard to the PH I tested mine early on as I have read that if it goes too low (below 6) it can stall the cycling process (mine is PH 8).

Darryl

If anything, just err to 4ppm, don't worry about the 5,6 stuff (too much is worse than too little)

 

[VanillaShake112]

During the process were it says, "add your ammonia to raise the level to 4 to 5 ppm. And simply wait on the ammonia to drop back to around 1 ppm" Does this mean that I add the ammonia only once, and then(while testing it daily)just wait until it reads 1ppm? And it could take aproxx. 4 weeks+ for it to read 1ppm?

 

[VanillaShake112]

Am I only supposed to add the ammonia once and then wait? Or is there another time than I should?

 

[Colin_T]

you add the ammonia on the first day and then each day when you test the tank you top up the levels of ammonia if needed.
If the ammonia levels drop to 2ppm then add some more to bring the level back up to 4 or 5ppm.
If the ammonia level doesn't drop then don't add any until it does.

You continue adding ammonia until the tank is fully cycled.

 

[waterdrop]

OK, given vanillashake's question, I think Colin's first sentence could be interpreted a couple of ways. I had to read the whole thing 3 times before I decided I agree with what he says and its just the words... I'm not sure I can do any better (Colin's explanations are usually more clear than mine anyway..) But just so we are sure vanilla's (and all of our) question has been answered correctly, I'll do this...

Let's make some rules and Colin or someone can correct us if they see a problem:
1) You test your ammonia in a gallon or two of water until you know what drops/amt won't put you over 4ppm
2) You add ammonia to the tank erring to the low side, then tweak up to 4-5ppm if necessary.
3) You can test for ammonia multiple times per day if you want but you can only add ammonia *once* per day or less (right? you don't ever want your ammonia to push up there to 7-8ppm or your nitrite production to get too high.)
4) eg. if you measure 3ppm, you wait another day without adding ammonia
5) If you measure, say 2 or 1 or 0ppm ammonia, you go ahead and carefully add measured amts of ammonia to bring it back up to 4ppm but not overshooting to 7-8ppm. You only do this once in a days time.

Yes, you could have days go by when it still measures 4ppm or 3ppm and you don't add anything. Your ammonia oxidizing population is just not big enough to process very much ammonia and you don't want to encourage a different species that likes higher 7-8 level. This is my interpretation, hopefully others will confirm or refine...

The reason I'm bothering to be this detailed is that in my own fishless cycle I feel in hindsight that in the later stage after the nitrite spike, I fell prey to adding ammonia too often. Ammonia would drop very fast and I kept thinking about not starving the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria and sometimes brought it back up to 4ppm twice a day. Later I learned it was probably better to be only feeding them a maintenance level of 4ppm once a day only, so that their end-product of nitrites would not flood so high above 5.0, there being some concern that very high nitrites might inhibit nitrite-oxidizing bacteria.

Members agree/disagree? (vanilla, let me know if this was helpful or just made the question worse.)

 

[VanillaShake112]

Yes you did help waterdrop, quite a bit actually (I really like when members give lots of details ) ok, this is alot more simple to follow now, but did I cover everything?

1) set up the tank with clean, dechlorinated water.

2) add your ammonia to raise the level to 4 to 5 ppm.

3) Test your water every day, and only add ammonia *once* per day to keep it at around 4-5 ppm.

(this step is continued anywhere from 3-8 weeks)

4) Once the bacteria are able to process 4 or 5 ppm of ammonia back to zero ammonia and nitrite in about 10 to 12 hours. You are officially cycled.Continue to add ammonia daily as you must feed the bacteria that have formed or they will begin to die off.

Question (1) How long must you continue to add ammonia after you reach step 4?

Question (2) I still having a hard time understanding what a spike is. Like, what causes it? Does a spike always happen when cycling a tank? Can a spike occur when you fish are living in it?

Question(3) When should I start testing for Nitrite/Nitrates?

 

[Colin_T]

Let's make some rules and Colin or someone can correct us if they see a problem:

LOL
thanks Waterdrop, put the onus on me to solve the problem

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For VanillaShake

You keep adding ammonia each day after the filters have cycled until you add some fish. When you add some fish they will produce the ammonia to feed the filters and you no longer have to worry about adding additional ammonia.
eg, if you are going to buy some fish on Saturday then add some ammonia Friday morning and do a big water change Friday afternoon. Then don't add any more ammonia. Just get the fish on Saturday and start feeding the fish and that is it.

A spike is simply the highest point reached during a cycling phase.
eg, 12 days into the cycling stage the ammonia levels start to come down and the nitrites go up. A day later and the ammonia levels drop completely and the nitrite skyrockets upwards, (you get a spike). Then over the next week or so the nitrites level off before starting to come down.

Ammonia and nitrite spikes can occur when fish are living in the tank. It is usually seen when too much food is put in the tank, or you lose a heap of fish. It can also occur soon after cleaning the filter.
Basically you get too much fish food or waste in the water. This breaks down and releases ammonia. There is too much ammonia for the filters to deal with straight away and the ammonia level suddenly goes up (you get a spike).
Then once the filters start to break down this ammonia it gets converted to nitrite. There is unlikely to be enough bacteria to convert all the nitrite into nitrate, and subsequently you get a nitrite spike as well. Then a few days later the bacteria develop enough to be able to break down the ammonia and nitrite and the filters settle back down.

There are exceptions to this when the ammonia levels get too high for the bacteria and they shut down completely and no longer process the waste. Then the ammonia levels get out of control and all the fish die.
Quite often you will notice there is a problem with the water quality by looking at it. The water develops a milky cloudy appearance and sometimes has an unpleasant smell to it. The quickest way to fix the problem is to remove any dead fish or rotting organic matter (food, plants, etc) and do a massive water change. Then increase surface turbulence and make sure the filters are running properly.

However, if you don't over-feed your fish, and you don't wash the filters out under tap water, and you don't leave dead fish to rot in the tank, you should never have a problem with ammonia or nitrite spikes once the filter is established.

You can start testing for nitrites after about a week. You probably won't get any nitrite readings until about the 10 day mark.

Nitrates can be tested a week or so after you start getting a nitrite reading. However, most nitrate test kits will also read nitrites. You then have to use a formula to deduct the nitrite from the nitrate before you get an accurate nitrate reading.
I normally don't bother with nitrate testing until the tank has cycled.

 

[VanillaShake112]

Thank you everyone for your help and patience! I really appreciate it!

So, (for example) if it takes 4 drops of ammonia to reach 4-5ppms. and one day the ammonia is 2 ppms. Then you just add the ammonia one drop at a time and test it after each drop until it reaches 4-5ppms.?

Also, would it be a good idea to ask the pet store if they will give me a little scoop of their aquarium gravel to get my bacteria started? or would that be a bad idea?

 

[waterdrop]

Thank you everyone for your help and patience! I really appreciate it!

So, (for example) if it takes 4 drops of ammonia to reach 4-5ppms. and one day the ammonia is 2 ppms. Then you just add the ammonia one drop at a time and test it after each drop until it reaches 4-5ppms.?

Also, would it be a good idea to ask the pet store if they will give me a little scoop of their aquarium gravel to get my bacteria started? or would that be a bad idea?

Right, you have tested your particular ammonia (most clear ammonia is 9.5% solution but some are not and you can't know, so you test) by RDD's method (can't remember but something like.. try 5 drops in a gallon and then test and see if it would need to be higher or lower (4 drops or 6 drops/gallon)) You did this prior to fishless cycling. Then you multiply by your gallons, so for example, in my case I needed more than 150 drops to get my 28G up near 4ppm and then I guesstimated in more drops and retested. I always kept track of what I did in writing in my log entries. It doesn't take long to get very good at knowing how much ammonia will get you to what ppm.

Eventually I knew that 12 full dropper squirts would get my tank to 4ppm, 6 squirts to 2ppm. I didn't even bother any more with counting drops. You can also be more careful and use a container that show ml graduations.

I'm still of mixed mind about getting gravel from a LFS and you will hear people advise both ways. Getting mature media to quickstart your cycling is a very sane thing to do.. fishless cycling without it can take a long time (as I am an example of!) On the other hand, the LFS is one of the most likely places to have things in the gravel that can cause illness and disease, so many advise against getting help from that route - its really just an unknown.

~~waterdrop~~