Cycling-6 weeks, still the same

[LongNY]

I set up my tank 6 weeks ago.... Started Cycling with fish, ( 4 Tiger Barbs). I didn't understand about fishless cycling, but will try fishless on my next tank. Lost 1 TB on the first night, but the other 3 have been great....seem "happy", sooo hungry, and have high energy. In fact, one is a very pregnant female that is being chased around by what I perceive as 2 males. I know that I should have more Tiger Barbs since the tank needs at least 6/8 to disperse their "happy agression", but I don't want to introduce any more fish until I have a properly cycled tank.

Every week I test my water qualities and the only change is that the Ammonia has risen to a toxic level of 1.5.

However, I learned from research, that the de-chlorinator that I used, Amquel, will render an ammonia reading inaccurate, but supposedly NOT interfere with the tank cycling properly. I've been making weekly water changes of 20% in my 20gallon x-tra high tank and I have switched to using "Tap Water Conditioner" instead of Amquel....

I have 3 live plants in the tank. I have kept the filter media and charcoal the same. Only rinsing the media with the old tank water taken out from the water change. I clean the glass because it has alot of brown algae and brown diatoms on my artificial plants. I'm interpreting this as a healthy environment.

I have had lots of advice during this process and I thank everyone who has taken the time.

My water is very soft, PH of 5.0, which is not recommended for Tiger Barbs, but again.... they seem just fine. An Ammonia of 1.5 (supposedly toxic), Nitrite 0., and Nitrate 0.

It has been this way for at least 4 of the 6 weeks..... I would like to add more fish, but don't want to until I get the balance in the tank of a cycled aquarium. However, even though I've got patience, it is truly being tested. 6 WEEKS...UGH!!.....
If the cycling process is on track, I need confirmation on this. If it's not, I wonder what else I can do.

Please help.... John NYC

 

[nc_nutcase]

I've only recently started educating myself on cycling although I've kept fish off and on for over 20 years. One question I have, did you 'seed' your aquarium with anything from an established aquarium? Doing so will speed up your cycle significantly as this places all the required bacteria and other elements your tank needs to cycle. Then you only have to wait for them to increase to a point where they can handle your bioload. Besides that, it sounds like you have done your part properly.

Prior to the mass understanding of cycling, there was a basic approach of establishing an aquarium my Father taught me (not sure if this was common knowledge or his own little secret). Set up the tank with all its decor, heaters, filter(s), etc. If at all possible transfer some gravel, decor, filter media or something from an established aquarium. Wait a few days then add a handful of guppies (quantity depends on tank size, I'm thinking 1 guppy per 3-5 gallons). then every 3 or 4 days add about the same amount of guppies. In 2-3 weeks start adding your permanent stock (I always kept cichlids so the guppies became food).

The only things I hear now a days that conflicts with this old process is not to leave established aquarium items in the tank without fish. As their waste feeds the bacteria we want from the established items. I still use basically the same old process I described above to cycle. The only real difference is I now weekly monitor my stats and when nitrItes fall to 0 after their spike, I do 33% water changes several days in a row to remove the nitrAtes.

If the bioload in your aquarium has been processed, then you would have some nitrAtes or nitrItes. It sounds to me like your water changes are keeping your light bioload in check. I would consider adding more fish.

 

[WILDER]

This might help.
http/www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_fishless.php

 

[sinistral]

I have two pieces of advice:

1. Hold off on rinsing the filter media, even in used tank water. It's all too easy to squeeze too vigorously, or even swish too vigorously if you don't have bacterial colonies grown in.

2. I think I recall from an earlier post you have driftwood, and that your tapwater's natural pH is higher than 5.0.

Consider taking the driftwood out. At a pH below around 5.0-5.5 bacterial reproduction slows and stops. I am guessing this is the major factor in the delay in the cycle.

I believe pendragon posted earlier that at a pH of 5.0 ammonia is mostly in the form of ammonium ion, which is much less toxic than ammonia. This is likely why your fish are healthy and happy. You'll have to keep an eye on this as the pH rises-- keep up with the water changes.

HTH~

EDIT: I just went back and saw the post in which you said your tapwater is 7.0 and you believe that the driftwood in the tank is lowering the pH to 5.0. I'd definitely advise taking the driftwood out at this point and keeping an eye on the ammonia/pH.

 

[LongNY]

Thanks to everyone for your help...

How great that you remember my postings....thank you Sinistral, your memory is perfect..

I will take out the driftwood.....

I didn't realize that a low ph will slow or stop the cycling....

Ok...will give it a try

John NYC

One more query.... I have an eclipse filter/hood system.... since I need to take the hood off to remove the driftwood...... how much time do I have since the filter will be unplugged and the biowheel will not be turning..... I'll keep it in some old tank water, but am concerned about the correct procedure... Thanks.... J

 

[nc_nutcase]

John... thank you for asking... I also didn't know that and my local tap water has a PH of barely over 6. You helped me learn something new, thanks!!

 

[Fishist]

1. Hold off on rinsing the filter media, even in used tank water. It's all too easy to squeeze too vigorously, or even swish too vigorously if you don't have bacterial colonies grown in.

Great piece of advise... I learned this the hard way even though I thought I was being VERY gentle.

 

[rdd1952]

Every week I test my water qualities and the only change is that the Ammonia has risen to a toxic level of 1.5.

I've been making weekly water changes of 20% in my 20gallon x-tra high tank and I have switched to using "Tap Water Conditioner" instead of Amquel....

An Ammonia of 1.5 (supposedly toxic), Nitrite 0., and Nitrate 0.

First off, in a cycling tank, you should be testing your water daily. A lot of really bad things can happen overnight little on in a week.

Secondly, you should be doing small water changes several times a week to keep the ammonia levels down.

Third, the fact that you have no nitrite or nitrate tells me that your tank hasn't even started cycling yet. If it had, some of the ammonia would have already turned to nitrite and you would have a reading there. One thing that may be preventing that is the use of chemicals to kill the ammonia.

Another thing that is probably causing your tank not to cycle is that I remember reading somewhere that ammonia was not toxic at lower pH levels. I can't remember where I read it but it was on one of the forums I visit. If your pH is only 5.0, that may be the reason your fish seem happy and healthy dispite the seemingly toxic level of ammonia. Here is a sight that mentions it but doesn't give an exact level where the toxicity ceases.

www.water.ncsu.edu/watershedss/info/nh3.html

If that is the case, be careful in taking the driftwood out as that will cause your pH to rise an may make the ammonia toxic again.

 

[newland]

Would it be better then to do some large water changes say 30% every day to lower the amonia ions then remove the drift wood out.

I know this will delay things a bit more but as i come to learn that everything takes time with tropical fish and patience is a must for keeping them.

 

[rdd1952]

I see on the edit by sinistral that your tap pH is about neutral at 7.0. Doing larger (25% or more), daily water changes could present a different problem. Doing frequent changes could raise the pH enough that it suddenly turns the ammonia into a toxin again. Of course, the frequent changes would probably lower the level to something acceptible until the tank cycles. It could also raise the pH level too much at once and cause other problems with your fish. I would stick to maybe 10% changes daily until you get the level down.

If you want to keep your drift wood, Once you get the ammonia problem solved, you may want to experiment with using a small amount of crushed coral. I have to do that. I just put a small amount in a filter and hang inside the tank. I guess you could also put it in the actual filter. If you do try this, start with like maybe a teaspoon full. You don't want to raise it too fast. Just check the pH daily do see if there is any change. With a pH at 5.0, you probably won't notice a change for a while. I'm not sure about your test kit but my pH kit won't measure lower than 6.0.

 

[LongNY]

Again, thanks to everyone..

I made a 25% water change.....and took out the Driftwood....

Right away the ph is now 6.0, ammonia is still at 1.5, and nitrite nitrate are both 0.0

I'll keep a daily check on the water quality and hope that the tank will start to cycle properly...

I was absolutely washing the filter media way too vigorously, so I've just left it alone this week....

I'm hoping that I can ultimately keep discus, my favorite fish, but for now I going to try to get the tank cycled and take it from there..... but I do wonder if Discus need soft water....how do they live in a cycled tank if a low ph and soft water slows or stop bacterial production?

Thanks John NYC

 

[rdd1952]

Keep a really close eye on the ammonia as now that your pH is up to 6.0, the ammonia will take on a toxicity again. As for washing the filter, I only rinse mine about every 2 or 4 weeks. I don't do it with every water change.

 

[sinistral]

I concur here with rdd1952, ammonia is too high to be safe as the pH begins to creep up. If I were you I'd follow his recommendation about daily small water changes to bring that (and the pH) into line.

No discus experience, but from what I've read keeping steady water conditions and above all cleanliness are what's key with raising healthy discus. It isn't the soft water that slows the growth of nitrifying bacteria-- it's the pH (less than about 5.5). Discus can be kept in somewhat of a range of pH (6.0-7.8) as long as it's steady and the water is clean. This link is a helpful reference. HTH~ I'll be interested to hear how things turn out.

 

[LongNY]

Testing ammonia, still 1.5 and nitrItes, 0.0....not testing for NitrAtes.... water is still extremely soft right out of the tap, but my ph has been staying at 6.0 since I took out the driftwood....(hope to put the driftwood back in the tank....it looks so good, but will wait on adding crushed coral and the driftwood until I get a cycled tank.) Fish are doing fine.... Thanks, John NYC