Cycling 12 Gallon Tank For Discus

[wiz83]

Hi, I've been planning to get discuses for ages.

Recently, I've been doing so much research on fishless-cycle.

I'm from Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur. I went to my local Ace Hardware and purchased 10% Ammonia Janitorial.

I've got myself API test kits for Ammonia and Nitrite, I haven't purchased the one for Nitrate yet. Also, I picked up Sera pH test kit. I'm using Nutrafin Aqua Plus to condition my water, and OceanFree Super Battle Bacteria 8000 as Nitrifying Bacteria.

When I first got the tank, I washed the gravel like 100x to make sure it is clean, using only clear tap water, over a period of almost 2 hours, I let it soak, throw water away, etc. The gravel filled the tank up about 1.5cm bottom. I then fill the water all the way to the top, and added amount of Nutrafin Aqua Plus for dechlorine and choramine.

I used a Hang on Back filter, instead of using the original media as biological filter, I purchased a black-sponge-bio-filter, cut it to fit in. Before the bio-filter, there is an installed mechanical filter.

I have my heater set to 29 Degrees Celsius. And runs a digital thermometer that measures current temp, HIGH, and LOW.

After that, I turned on the filter, let it run for over night.

At day 1, I used the calculator that's provided through fishforums.net, added the right amount of AceHardware ammonia to achieve 4ppm. I let it run with the filter for over 30minutes, then I tested the ammonia content using my API tester. It apparently showed as 4ppm, right where I wanted it to be. So, now I was trying to use Nitrifying Bacteria to help fasten my cycling process, I added normal dose based on instructions of Super Battle Bacteria 8000, slightly more than 1ml using a baby syringe, as it claimed 1ml of that solution is supposed to treat 42Litres of water. I poured it directly into the filter chamber. Again, I let it run overnight.

At day 2, I checked the temperature from the digital thermometer, current temp at 29.1C, LOW 28.5C, HIGH 29.9C. It looked fine to me. I then took the Ammonia test, showed 4ppm, Nitrite test showed 0ppm ... I also did pH test at 7.5 Since there wasn't any drop in ammonia, and increase in nitrite, I decided to add double the dosage of nitrifying bacteria, as the bottle instruction states that I can double or triple the dosage to speed things up.

Just a question, I thought those nitrifying bacteria is supposed to help with bacteria growth? If not, it should introduce a little, rather than nothing, shouldn't they convert some of my ammonia into nitrites? Why am I reading 0 nitrites? and no drop in ammonia? Did I do something wrong? The pH is rather high at 7.5, I'm worried, but my tap water is 7.5 up to 8.0 based on my last 2 days tests, what can I do? I've read that discuses need 6.0 up to 7.0 pH for them to be comfy.

Please advise what I can do, and if I did something wrong?

Thank you.

 

[sebn]

Sorry but 12 gallon is nowhere near big enough to house Discus. Someone else with more knowledge about them will have to confirm but as I understand it 75g+ is what i believe is recommended.

 

[wiz83]

This is my trial tank for discus, I plan to get 80-100 gallon tank later if the 2 dicus I purchase after my tank has been fully cycled, survives more than 3-4 months.

 

[the_lock_man]

They would stand a much better chance of surviving 3-4 months in a more suitable tank. Seriously, Wiz, don't put a discus in a 12g.

 

[DrSlackBladder]

I don't know much about discus, but if I were you I'd take the advice of the knowledgeable guys on here. But I do know a little now about the fishless cycle using ammonia solution, as I successfully completed mine a couple of months ago. You haven't done anything wrong, but it doesn't happen overnight! Popular opinion is that the bacteria in a bottle doesn't work (since these bacteria need oxygen), although it won't do any harm. You need to let nature take its course to build up your colonies of beneficial bacteria. After initial 4ppm NH3 dose, I didn't see a drop in ammonia or any nitrites until about 10 days into the cycle, at a temp of 28C. Then, regular dosing ammonia to 2-3ppm, took another approx 10 days until I started seeing nitrates. Then another week before the nitrites dropped to zero. Then another week, adding ammonia each day, confirming zero nitrites within 24 hrs of adding ammonia. Then I was done. And from what I read on here, my fishless cycle was one of the quicker ones. Be patient and don't fiddle with it, no matter how tempting. It's worth it in the end. I now have almost full stock of fish and shrimp in my tank, and all are eating and growing well, active, healthy and (I think!) happy.

 

[Electric Warrior]

Having even two discus in a 12G tank is completely a huge mistake! Way too small, even for juvenile discus. I wouldn't even attempt it in anything smaller than 50G, and that would just be for growing out juveniles. If you are planning on buying a pair of two adults, that would be an extremely expensive mistake. If you were planning on buying young fish, it just wouldn't work. To grow out juvenile discus into adults, they need a lot of work. First of all, they need to be fed like 4 times a day at least, and they are extremely messy, even at such a small size. That is why most people you see raising juvenile discus use completely bare bottom tanks, because the tank floor needs to be vacuumed every day. This is besides the fact that your water quality in a 12g, even with very strong filtration, will suffer badly with discus in a tank that small. They need pristine water, or they will develop health conditions, have stunted growth, or possibly die. it's seriously the wrong thing to do. I would definitely not attempt it, until you can get a 50G tank, minimum!

 

[wiz83]

What fish would you recommend in at 12 gallon tank? I'm only planning to use my old 12 gallon tank to see if I can handle discus, if I can at least handle them for a few months, I'd definitely get a 80-100 gallon tank. I've measured the space which I want to get my aquarium/fish tank fitted, and I want discus in particular. If I can get two to trial with, and they live without issue, I will definitely buy the tank. I don't want to buy a huge tank not knowing if I can really handle them.

Anyway, my tap water's pH comes naturally at 7.5 to 8.0 pH. What's the best and natural way to reduce the pH, to slightly acidic? Say 6.0 to 6.5?

 

[fluttermoth]

The problem you're going to have is, is that fish kept in tanks that are too small for them will, because of space/water quality issues, be far more likely to get sick or fail to thrive.

If you want a challenge for your smaller tank, why don't you try rams? (I mean the normal/blue/German, not Bolivians.) They're well known as being a very, very difficult fish to keep (a lot of people will tell you they're actually harder than discus), and need the same conditions; very soft, acidic, warm water with absolutely no ammonia or nitrite and very low nitrate.

If you can keep those, then you could feel confident in getting a bigger tank and having your discus.

Your best bet for lowering hardness and pH (and it's the hardness that's critical with these fish more than pH) is to use RO (reverse osmosis) water. You can't use it straight though, so you need to either mix it with some tap water, or use a remineralisation mix.

 

[Tuxyu3]

To give you the blunt answer, don't bother. If that is the only way you are willing to get Discus than just don't get them at all, save yourself a load of hassle, money and save the two fish their lives and health. You do not need to bother trying to keep them, there is no chance it will work, those fish will die or become stunted and develop other serious problems by the time you get to anywhere near 4 months.

I lie the suggestion of rams or perhaps some kind of Dwarf Cichlid (maybe shell-dwelling?)

 

[wiz83]

I guess I'll try rams? I'll try to locate them at a local aquarium to see if I can find any. If not, I'll try Dwarf Cichlid then. What about Angelfish ? Are they similar to discuses?

I've tested the hardness, and it showed 3.0, and I believe it is quite soft, as it is below 5.0? But pH is at 7.5-8.0

 

[Questions?]

angelfish would only be suited for a 12 gallon, for a small amount of time and they would have to be really small to work. but i would try gold rams (in my opinion they are harder to keep), i already have had german blue rams, and i tried gold rams but those died. to lower ph you could add driftwood, it lowers the ph because of tanins and it makes it more natural. but the water turns a tea-colored water

 

[The Taffy Apple]

I'm smelling something here...

Terry.

 

[wiz83]

I've just visited 4 different aquariums around my area during my lunch time, but none of them are selling any variation of rams. I guess I'll have to look around more.

The aquariums recommended a few options to reduce pH

- peat moss
- Black Water (by Azoo?)
- pH down
- one also told me to remove the gravel, as gravel makes pH higher, but the aquarium I bought the gravel told me the type I bought, it's very tiny, small ones, that are made in China, they're neutral, except for coral based gravel? I have no idea, I figured they're neutral too, coz my tap water are 7.5-8.0 pH, and running in my tank, they're around 7.5 too.

I'm considering peat moss, and black water, I was told they're both the same, except one is in liquid form. The bad thing is water will look brownish. But was also told that if I use them, especially if I get discuses, their color will be very beautiful and vibrant, because they love the peat moss / black water.

I've read online the pH down is a bad way to mess around? It'd be better to find a better permanent solution than a quick fix, and I suppose peat moss is a permanent solution? How should I use peat moss effectively? Put it in my HoB filter? Change it every how long? etc.

Oh, if I happen to be able to get gold rams, and if they survive my 3-4 months test, and I decide to get a huge tank, can my gold rams live with discuses? Together? Peacefully, healthily, and happily?

 

[garyspence84]

Rams and discus will happily live together without Amy problems. They also look great together too.

I'm not sure about peat moss as iv never used it, but if you don't mind the fact your water will darken, I would go for some bog wood instead. New stuff though, and that will darken your water and lower your PH, and at the end of it all, once your water stats sit at a constant, you have a nice piece of bogwood in your tank.

Good luck with whatever you decide

 

[wiz83]

Day 3, Ammonia still at 4.0ppm, and Nitrite at 0.0ppm. Temperature 29 Degree Celsius. Added 50 drops of bacteria this time. I have a feeling that OceanFree Super Bacteria 8000 isn't working. I'll stop using it if it's really not helping at all, I guess I've just purchased myself some snakeoil.

Also, failed to find them Rams locally here in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

What about tetra neons? They're readily available everywhere ... are these sensitive? Will they live with discus together peacefully, happily, healthily?

Also, remember I replaced the plastic media in my HoB filter with Sponge? I've just read even more that nylon pot scrubbies/scourer are better bio media, I might replace them, I can easily get one of these for less than USD$0.30 at a convenient store opposite my office. What do you guys think?