morefishies
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during a fishless cycle should I wait till the cycle is complete to add the plants or can they be in there from day 1?
Cycle With Plants?
- Thread starter morefishies
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Tokis-Phoenix
^_^
Yep plants can be in the tank from day one, although you might want to add something like "flora boost" by Interpet just so they get a head start of fertilisers to get them thriving in the tank 
.
.However, high ammonia levels can also damage plants (though, obviously, it doesn't kill them as it would do fish) and adding any type of fertiliser will encourage algae to grow at a time when your plants may not yet be established enough to effectively compete with the algae. Actualy, you don't need any fertilisers for the plants - the nitrogen your plants need they'll be getting that from the ammonia/nitrItes/nitrAtes anyway so realy the only worry is if they aren't getting the right minerals etc - as long as you are using dechlorinated tap water and have no carbon in your filter, this shouldn't be an issue.
corrosive
Fishaholic
my LFS told me yesterday, if i add plants partly through a cycle it will add an extra 3 weeks to it! They said if you want plants and dont want to wait to add fish, do both at the same time (within reason). Luckily though unless i have a spike of some kind my tanks been going a few days, i have plants 5 fish and all of the levels are more or less perfect. Using water from previous tank, and filter is a great thing..
ImperfectFaerie
Fish Crazy
Wondering, what effect does carbon in the filter have on cycling? It shouldn't be in there until the fish go in? Thanks!
Underwurlde
Always look on the bright side of life..
I could be wrong on this, but I think this is correct. I have learnt this from kind advice from other forum members.
The black carbon filter removes nutrients from the water. If the tank is planted, remove it! ONLY use the black carbon filter AFTER treating the fish with any Medications.
Also, if you are using a Green filter this removes nitrates. If the tank is planted, remove it as the plants will now do this for you. Replace the 'hole' left by this filter by more blue filters. This is also a good idea becasue you will now have 2 blue filters, one of which can be used in an emergency if a quarrantine tank needs setting up in a rush.
Andy
The black carbon filter removes nutrients from the water. If the tank is planted, remove it! ONLY use the black carbon filter AFTER treating the fish with any Medications.
Also, if you are using a Green filter this removes nitrates. If the tank is planted, remove it as the plants will now do this for you. Replace the 'hole' left by this filter by more blue filters. This is also a good idea becasue you will now have 2 blue filters, one of which can be used in an emergency if a quarrantine tank needs setting up in a rush.
Andy
morefishies
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hmm... for some reason i feel like i'm getting mixed responses.
I got my 10 gallon in a kit with a whisper filter. The filter comes with the filter pockets and bags of carbon to fill the pockets with. Are you saying I shouldn't use the carbon? Do I ever use the carbon? I'm unclear on this issue..
And I guess I was wondering about the plants because if it won't hurt them at all, I'd like to put them in when I start the cycle so by the time I get my fish, they will have had time to grow in a bit. If not, then I can just order them when I order my fish and save a few bucks on shipping.... but I'd have to keep the fish waiting whlie I set up the plants.
hmmm....
I got my 10 gallon in a kit with a whisper filter. The filter comes with the filter pockets and bags of carbon to fill the pockets with. Are you saying I shouldn't use the carbon? Do I ever use the carbon? I'm unclear on this issue..
And I guess I was wondering about the plants because if it won't hurt them at all, I'd like to put them in when I start the cycle so by the time I get my fish, they will have had time to grow in a bit. If not, then I can just order them when I order my fish and save a few bucks on shipping.... but I'd have to keep the fish waiting whlie I set up the plants.
hmmm....
morefishies
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just had a thought:
will the plants be able to survive without the fish as a source of CO2?
will the plants be able to survive without the fish as a source of CO2?
im wondering the same things...im at the start of my fishless cycle and want to add plants i DO have CARBON in my filter system filter! is this a problem?? should i take the carbon out for now
?
Egmel
Fishaholic
Ok, from what I've gleaned in my few weeks on this site.
Plants can go in during a fishless cycle (mine went in yesterday on day 5ish of my cycle) though obviously the hardier the plants are the better. You may find that any which are very sensitive to pH might be best left until the tank has stabilised.
The carbon isn't really necessary, it's a chemical filtration process which removes some of the trace elements that your plants will need. Also it needs to be replaced every few weeks if you do decide to use it because after this time the chemical reactions have all taken place and the chemical 'runs out'. There are apparently ways of 're-setting' the carbon by baking it but I'm not sure how effective they are or how many times you can do this.
Most people I've spoken to only use carbon to remove extraneous medications from the water after they've treated an entire tank.
Hope this Helps
Helen
Plants can go in during a fishless cycle (mine went in yesterday on day 5ish of my cycle) though obviously the hardier the plants are the better. You may find that any which are very sensitive to pH might be best left until the tank has stabilised.
The carbon isn't really necessary, it's a chemical filtration process which removes some of the trace elements that your plants will need. Also it needs to be replaced every few weeks if you do decide to use it because after this time the chemical reactions have all taken place and the chemical 'runs out'. There are apparently ways of 're-setting' the carbon by baking it but I'm not sure how effective they are or how many times you can do this.
Most people I've spoken to only use carbon to remove extraneous medications from the water after they've treated an entire tank.
Hope this Helps
Helen
Almost every aquatic plant prefers to take up ammonia as it nitrogen source. In fact, most aquatic plants take up nitrate and then expend energy to convert it back to ammonia for easier use.
If you set up your tank and get the plants situated well (planted in good rich substrate, for example), and you have a lot of plants, you can effectively treat the tank as cycled. The plants are the filter in this case
Diana Walstad's excellent book Ecology of the Planted Aquarium has a great deal more information on this, like choosing the right substrates, lighting etc. Her method for setting up a new tank is to fill it, plant the plant, wait a day or so until the disturbed substrate settles completely, then fully stock. And when I say fully stock, I mean fully stock. She has 55 gal lushly planted tanks with 40 or so guppies in there, and another 55 gal lushly planted with over 20 rainbowfish.
But, she has a lot of experience and knowledge doing this. Being as this is in the Beginner Questions section, I would not recommend following Walstad's ideas unless you are very experienced.
So, in summary, the plants will take up ammonia and can be effectively the filter in your tank. They can certainly go in while fishless cycling, and really the fishless cycling procedure doesn't change. You keep testing until all the added ammonia gets processes in one day. They will get some CO2 from the air, you'll have to ask or research if the plants will need supplemental CO2.
If you set up your tank and get the plants situated well (planted in good rich substrate, for example), and you have a lot of plants, you can effectively treat the tank as cycled. The plants are the filter in this case
Diana Walstad's excellent book Ecology of the Planted Aquarium has a great deal more information on this, like choosing the right substrates, lighting etc. Her method for setting up a new tank is to fill it, plant the plant, wait a day or so until the disturbed substrate settles completely, then fully stock. And when I say fully stock, I mean fully stock. She has 55 gal lushly planted tanks with 40 or so guppies in there, and another 55 gal lushly planted with over 20 rainbowfish.
But, she has a lot of experience and knowledge doing this. Being as this is in the Beginner Questions section, I would not recommend following Walstad's ideas unless you are very experienced.
So, in summary, the plants will take up ammonia and can be effectively the filter in your tank. They can certainly go in while fishless cycling, and really the fishless cycling procedure doesn't change. You keep testing until all the added ammonia gets processes in one day. They will get some CO2 from the air, you'll have to ask or research if the plants will need supplemental CO2.
scubadoo
Fish Crazy
To add to the above, adding plants while cycling can also help to seed your filter with the nitryfying bacteria, since these bacteria can be present in their root systems.
This is a fairly effective alternative to getting mature donor media from another source.
Certain plants can be more effective than others - I used amazon swords (echinodorus bleheri), but left the roots in the rockwool that they came in. I read that this was the best approach to help seed the filter. You can plant them on once your filter is processing the ammonia / nitrite.
I think that the need for CO2 will depend on the plants and lighting that you have.
Do be warned though that at the end of a fishless cycle you are likely to have a fair bit of brown algae in your tank, thogh it does seem to clear up fairly quickly.
This is a fairly effective alternative to getting mature donor media from another source.
Certain plants can be more effective than others - I used amazon swords (echinodorus bleheri), but left the roots in the rockwool that they came in. I read that this was the best approach to help seed the filter. You can plant them on once your filter is processing the ammonia / nitrite.
I think that the need for CO2 will depend on the plants and lighting that you have.
Do be warned though that at the end of a fishless cycle you are likely to have a fair bit of brown algae in your tank, thogh it does seem to clear up fairly quickly.
scubadoo
Fish Crazy
Crypts are also supposed to be fine.
Look at post no. 5 on this thread for more info. on sources to help seed your filter:
fishless cycling thread
hope it helps
Look at post no. 5 on this thread for more info. on sources to help seed your filter:
fishless cycling thread
hope it helps
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