Man of fish
I'm Interested in.... ----|> that
Looks a little understocked to me but idk.
Crustyoneastcoast - 35 U.s. Gallon Fishless Cycle
- Thread starter CrustyOnEastCoast
- Start date
CrustyOnEastCoast
Fish Fanatic
Day 37:
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrites: 0ppm
Nitrates: 40-80ppm (hard to tell)
Ph: 8
All ammonia and resulting nitrites still gobbled up (and this was after doubling ammonia dose)!
This was a 24 hour test. I will switch over to 12 hour testing as soon as I can.
I'll watch my Ph but I might also perform some small water changes every few days also.
Thermometer still set at 82F.
Once I get ammonia and nitrite processing regularly at the 12 hour mark, I will slowly drop my temperature down to 76F over a few days, and in the meantime, order a full stocking of fish!!
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrites: 0ppm
Nitrates: 40-80ppm (hard to tell)
Ph: 8
All ammonia and resulting nitrites still gobbled up (and this was after doubling ammonia dose)!
This was a 24 hour test. I will switch over to 12 hour testing as soon as I can.
I'll watch my Ph but I might also perform some small water changes every few days also.
Thermometer still set at 82F.
Once I get ammonia and nitrite processing regularly at the 12 hour mark, I will slowly drop my temperature down to 76F over a few days, and in the meantime, order a full stocking of fish!!
The Taffy Apple
Fish Herder
This has been a wicked thread so far C.O.E.C... i am due sleep after a nightshift, but i continued to read it, well done 
Are American gallons bigger than British? If they are (or even if they're not, really) then i wouldn't add them all together at once, personally. I would add maybe the Corys first, or even the Tetra... the Pearl Gourami pair would look lovely, would you mind me asking what colour substrate and/or backround you are thinking of? It sounds great
Terry.
Are American gallons bigger than British? If they are (or even if they're not, really) then i wouldn't add them all together at once, personally. I would add maybe the Corys first, or even the Tetra... the Pearl Gourami pair would look lovely, would you mind me asking what colour substrate and/or backround you are thinking of? It sounds great
Terry.
CrustyOnEastCoast
Fish Fanatic
Well, if my tank is fully cycled (not quite yet), I should be able to add them all at once so I don't lose the beneficial bacteria I have worked for?
Quick Google search indicates: the US gallon is 83.267% of the British gallon. Don't know if that is true.
There is a picture link in my signature where you can see my aquarium (brown rock tape-on-the-back background, light sand for substrate, some real rocks, several fake plants, a fake log/driftwood looking thing). To keep it easy, no real plants this go-round.
If I follow the generic 1 inch of fish per gallon rule, then I think the stocking list has me fully stocked.. but wondering if I could add a couple more. but ... is that 1 inch of fish per British Gallon, or U.S. Gallon ??
Quick Google search indicates: the US gallon is 83.267% of the British gallon. Don't know if that is true.
There is a picture link in my signature where you can see my aquarium (brown rock tape-on-the-back background, light sand for substrate, some real rocks, several fake plants, a fake log/driftwood looking thing). To keep it easy, no real plants this go-round.
If I follow the generic 1 inch of fish per gallon rule, then I think the stocking list has me fully stocked.. but wondering if I could add a couple more. but ... is that 1 inch of fish per British Gallon, or U.S. Gallon ??
US gallons are a little smaller than UK Gallons.
The inch of fish rule, I believe is based on US Gallons. The folks in the UK use L more than Gallons, so a UK gallon wouldn't make sense to me.
35 US gallons is PLENTY of room for these:
If I were to suggest anything, here is what I would say: 3 male guppies is not a lot. They will get a little aggressive with only 3. If you up that to 6, you'd be far better off, IMHO. This also gives you more color choices.
I would also increase the tetra numbers to 10 or so. Bigger shoals look better, IMHO.
The Pandas are a bit of a skittish variety of cory. They need hiding spots (love caves and plants) and the bigger the shoal of them, the more adventurous they will be. Smaller numbers tend to hide more than bigger numbers.
Also, corys are not a good first species in the tank, IMHO. I'd start with the guppies and tetras. Then, add the cories. The cories will be searching your substrate for food, but if there isn't any there for them, they can starve.
Then add the gouramis last. Are you getting two gourami, or are you getting a breeding pair? There is a BIG difference. A breeding pair might not be a good thing in your tank. They will get aggressive protecting their nest if they do mate in your tank. But, if you get two females, then you shouldn't have an issue. I'm not sure about how two males would get along, there might be some aggression to each other in that case.
This would "overstock" you according to that guideline, but as long as you are good about your water changes and watch your nitrates carefully, are slightly overfiltered and have some live plants, it should work just fine. Most folks keep their stock a little high, I know I do. But, I also have a fair amount of live plants (I'm thinking of getting some more soon), and do large water changes regularly. My fish all swim in different levels of my tank, so there isn't a lot of "crowding" when you look at the tank, but there is always activity somewhere. My rasboras stick to the top half, to top third. My neons hang in the middle water. The glofish and guppies go all over the place. My dwarf gourami stays to the lower third for the most part, but I think that is because it figured out that the food for the cories and pleco land there! And the cories just hang on the bottom the whole time, while the BN pleco just goes wherever it believes it can find some fresh algae to munch.
The inch of fish rule, I believe is based on US Gallons. The folks in the UK use L more than Gallons, so a UK gallon wouldn't make sense to me.
35 US gallons is PLENTY of room for these:
If I were to suggest anything, here is what I would say: 3 male guppies is not a lot. They will get a little aggressive with only 3. If you up that to 6, you'd be far better off, IMHO. This also gives you more color choices.
I would also increase the tetra numbers to 10 or so. Bigger shoals look better, IMHO.
The Pandas are a bit of a skittish variety of cory. They need hiding spots (love caves and plants) and the bigger the shoal of them, the more adventurous they will be. Smaller numbers tend to hide more than bigger numbers.
Also, corys are not a good first species in the tank, IMHO. I'd start with the guppies and tetras. Then, add the cories. The cories will be searching your substrate for food, but if there isn't any there for them, they can starve.
Then add the gouramis last. Are you getting two gourami, or are you getting a breeding pair? There is a BIG difference. A breeding pair might not be a good thing in your tank. They will get aggressive protecting their nest if they do mate in your tank. But, if you get two females, then you shouldn't have an issue. I'm not sure about how two males would get along, there might be some aggression to each other in that case.
This would "overstock" you according to that guideline, but as long as you are good about your water changes and watch your nitrates carefully, are slightly overfiltered and have some live plants, it should work just fine. Most folks keep their stock a little high, I know I do. But, I also have a fair amount of live plants (I'm thinking of getting some more soon), and do large water changes regularly. My fish all swim in different levels of my tank, so there isn't a lot of "crowding" when you look at the tank, but there is always activity somewhere. My rasboras stick to the top half, to top third. My neons hang in the middle water. The glofish and guppies go all over the place. My dwarf gourami stays to the lower third for the most part, but I think that is because it figured out that the food for the cories and pleco land there! And the cories just hang on the bottom the whole time, while the BN pleco just goes wherever it believes it can find some fresh algae to munch.
CrustyOnEastCoast
Fish Fanatic
Thanks eaglesaquarium for the thoughtful post!
You are quite a prolific contributor to this forum. I have benefited and enjoyed reading your well thought out, comprehensive posts in a myriad of places. Just wanted to say thanks and let you know that your efforts don't go unnoticed.
Anyway, taking what you have said .... I think I will increase my guppy count to 6 and leave everything else the same. Also, the pair of Pearl Guoramis means a breeding pair. Not that I intend to encourage them to breed at all .. I just don't want them to fight (2 males), and I want some color (avoid 2 plainer females). I don't suspect they'll be content enough to breed in my newbie aquarium anyway.
-- so I am willing to take that risk.
I don't want to push my stocking more than that because I have no live plants or anything else in my favor to justify pushing the stocking. But here is the kicker. I have horrid tap water (Ph 8, ammonia 2ppm at times from the chloramines). This means in an emergency situation I am screwed. I can't just perform a 80% water change and think everything is going to be okay. In fact, with that concentration of ammonia in my tap water, it might make things worse. So in an emergency where I would need to quickly reduce ammonia levels, I'd have to shell out the cash to buy gallons and gallons of RO Water, and then add mineral supplements to it (which I do have on hand) in the proper quantity to match the density in my tank (and I currently have no way to measure water hardness at the moment .. would just need to buy a kit).
Now concerning my fish choices. I am pretty sold on the guppies and pearl guoramis. I chose emperor tetras because my research told me that they are friendly, very hardy and easy to care for, tolerant of water conditions, etc.. Are they that much easier to care for than harlequin rasboras and bleeding heart tetras??? .. which I might also be willing to consider if they are good mid-level shoaling fish for beginners.
Same with the panda corydoras. I would like to have some corydoras (or some type of cool bottom dwellers) but my ph is high and my water is hard .. and my research tells me that this particular species of corydoras would be the best bet for these conditions. Are there other interesting corydoras that I might consider?
You are quite a prolific contributor to this forum. I have benefited and enjoyed reading your well thought out, comprehensive posts in a myriad of places. Just wanted to say thanks and let you know that your efforts don't go unnoticed.
Anyway, taking what you have said .... I think I will increase my guppy count to 6 and leave everything else the same. Also, the pair of Pearl Guoramis means a breeding pair. Not that I intend to encourage them to breed at all .. I just don't want them to fight (2 males), and I want some color (avoid 2 plainer females). I don't suspect they'll be content enough to breed in my newbie aquarium anyway.
-- so I am willing to take that risk.I don't want to push my stocking more than that because I have no live plants or anything else in my favor to justify pushing the stocking. But here is the kicker. I have horrid tap water (Ph 8, ammonia 2ppm at times from the chloramines). This means in an emergency situation I am screwed. I can't just perform a 80% water change and think everything is going to be okay. In fact, with that concentration of ammonia in my tap water, it might make things worse. So in an emergency where I would need to quickly reduce ammonia levels, I'd have to shell out the cash to buy gallons and gallons of RO Water, and then add mineral supplements to it (which I do have on hand) in the proper quantity to match the density in my tank (and I currently have no way to measure water hardness at the moment .. would just need to buy a kit).
Now concerning my fish choices. I am pretty sold on the guppies and pearl guoramis. I chose emperor tetras because my research told me that they are friendly, very hardy and easy to care for, tolerant of water conditions, etc.. Are they that much easier to care for than harlequin rasboras and bleeding heart tetras??? .. which I might also be willing to consider if they are good mid-level shoaling fish for beginners.
Same with the panda corydoras. I would like to have some corydoras (or some type of cool bottom dwellers) but my ph is high and my water is hard .. and my research tells me that this particular species of corydoras would be the best bet for these conditions. Are there other interesting corydoras that I might consider?
The Taffy Apple
Fish Herder
I have Albino Cory in my larger tank, fantastic little creatures to watch (as are all Corys i guess)..
Terry.
Terry.
Thank you for the kind words. I try to help, that's all.
Harlequin rasboras are almost bulletproof.
They are GREAT beginner fish. They are a little smaller though than the emperor and certainly than the bleeding hearts. They may not be a great idea with the Pearls... ultimately though, if you get them first and let them reach full size before you get the gouramis they can work out. The one thing you don't want is to buy juvies with full grown Pearls, because they could be a snack. Bleeding hearts are fairly easy as well, and get to be a chunky 3 inch fish. But, when full grown, they are fairly sedentary from what I've heard (never kept them).
Harlequins, a member here, has very similar water in terms of high pH and successfully breeds cories (without trying, as far as I know). Cories are awesome, any of them. Pandas can just be a bit more skittish. There is nothing wrong with them. (I have some myself!) They stay a bit smaller, so you could look to get more of them than some other cories.
With water like that, make sure the dechlorinator you use deals with ammonia (and detoxifies it by converting it to ammonium). My favorites are Prime and Stress Coat, in that order. Using that would help. Adding driftwood will also help to lower the pH a bit, or using peat in your filter. Granted this will make large water changes more difficult (as you point out), but as long as you refill slowly (sort of like acclimating your fish when you first get them), the fish would have time to acclimate to the tap conditions again. Just be sure to dose your dechlorinator correctly, and consider going to a double dose of dechlorinator.
Harlequin rasboras are almost bulletproof.
They are GREAT beginner fish. They are a little smaller though than the emperor and certainly than the bleeding hearts. They may not be a great idea with the Pearls... ultimately though, if you get them first and let them reach full size before you get the gouramis they can work out. The one thing you don't want is to buy juvies with full grown Pearls, because they could be a snack. Bleeding hearts are fairly easy as well, and get to be a chunky 3 inch fish. But, when full grown, they are fairly sedentary from what I've heard (never kept them).Harlequins, a member here, has very similar water in terms of high pH and successfully breeds cories (without trying, as far as I know). Cories are awesome, any of them. Pandas can just be a bit more skittish. There is nothing wrong with them. (I have some myself!) They stay a bit smaller, so you could look to get more of them than some other cories.
With water like that, make sure the dechlorinator you use deals with ammonia (and detoxifies it by converting it to ammonium). My favorites are Prime and Stress Coat, in that order. Using that would help. Adding driftwood will also help to lower the pH a bit, or using peat in your filter. Granted this will make large water changes more difficult (as you point out), but as long as you refill slowly (sort of like acclimating your fish when you first get them), the fish would have time to acclimate to the tap conditions again. Just be sure to dose your dechlorinator correctly, and consider going to a double dose of dechlorinator.
CrustyOnEastCoast
Fish Fanatic
I use Prime exclusively and slightly overdose each time.
I'm hearing several people say .. "Add this species of fish first ... then later add this species of fish". I can understand the reasoning, but this also confuses me because I thought the idea with a fishless cycle is that you establish your bacteria colonies at full strength and then immediately fully stock your fish tank so you don't lose all the hard work you dedicated to establishing your filter. Plus ... the added benefit of just having the luxury/opportunity to add in all your fish at once .. without having to wait any longer after waiting as long as you already have during your fishless cycle ... is neat. I was planning on ordering all the fish from my LFS .. and picking them up all at once for an exciting day .. whenever that day comes. Is that okay if I stick with the emperor tetras and make sure the pearl guoramis are not full grown?
Anyway, speaking of waiting .. I have a while to go yet .. but not too bad:
Day 39: (Switching to 12 hour tests starting today)
Ammonia: 0.75ppm
Nitrites: 4.5ppm
I'm hearing several people say .. "Add this species of fish first ... then later add this species of fish". I can understand the reasoning, but this also confuses me because I thought the idea with a fishless cycle is that you establish your bacteria colonies at full strength and then immediately fully stock your fish tank so you don't lose all the hard work you dedicated to establishing your filter. Plus ... the added benefit of just having the luxury/opportunity to add in all your fish at once .. without having to wait any longer after waiting as long as you already have during your fishless cycle ... is neat. I was planning on ordering all the fish from my LFS .. and picking them up all at once for an exciting day .. whenever that day comes. Is that okay if I stick with the emperor tetras and make sure the pearl guoramis are not full grown?
Anyway, speaking of waiting .. I have a while to go yet .. but not too bad:
Day 39: (Switching to 12 hour tests starting today)
Ammonia: 0.75ppm
Nitrites: 4.5ppm
This Old Spouse
TOTM Winner May 2013
Hmm ... that's what I had gleaned from the info on fishless cycling as well, that you could fully stock your tank right away. I've never gone through a fishless cycle, but it would make sense to stock it fully right away to keep the bacterial colony happy. I guess it would be a matter of stocking the right fish? It's a good point about the cory needing food, but sinking pellets would take care of that problem (and feeding at lights out).
The Taffy Apple
Fish Herder
Stocking your Tetra and Corys at the same time would actually be ok i would say. I still wouldn't add all four species at once (especially the Pearl Gourami) into a brand new, fully cycled tank, i had trouble myself with Guppys in a brand new tank....i would give it a week or so before they go in, it's what i done and my male DG is all the better for it (yet i lost the female to D.G disease )
Terry.
) Terry.
Yes, in theory you can add all the fish at once.
But, this assumes a bunch of things, including but not limited to:
* Even temperment (general instruction is to always add the most aggressive or biggest fish last).
* Disease free fish (if you are getting them all from the same supplier it probably doesn't matter too much, assuming that the fish are all on the same circulation/filtration system. This isn't always the case with some independent LFS).
* All these fish have good tolerance (hardiness) with newly set-up tanks.
* That there is sufficient food source for the fish. (Otos are extremely sensitive in this way, they need natural algae to eat, they generally won't just eat any food, algae wafer or cucumber thrown in).
In your case, the Gouramis should definitely be the last additions, so that you can ensure that the tetras are full grown and have scoped out the tank for hiding places, etc. If you were adding a fish that was more sensitive to a new tank, like neons, then you would want to wait for the tank to mature. Remember, there are A LOT of factors that go into maturing a tank beyond merely the nitrogen cycle. Most of those things are truly not fully understood, other than anecdotal evidence. Neons, for example, die for no apparent reason in new set-ups, even in a fully cycled tank. I got mine after my new tank was set-up for 6 months and I only lost one the night I brought it home - it just never seemed right.
But, this assumes a bunch of things, including but not limited to:
* Even temperment (general instruction is to always add the most aggressive or biggest fish last).
* Disease free fish (if you are getting them all from the same supplier it probably doesn't matter too much, assuming that the fish are all on the same circulation/filtration system. This isn't always the case with some independent LFS).
* All these fish have good tolerance (hardiness) with newly set-up tanks.
* That there is sufficient food source for the fish. (Otos are extremely sensitive in this way, they need natural algae to eat, they generally won't just eat any food, algae wafer or cucumber thrown in).
In your case, the Gouramis should definitely be the last additions, so that you can ensure that the tetras are full grown and have scoped out the tank for hiding places, etc. If you were adding a fish that was more sensitive to a new tank, like neons, then you would want to wait for the tank to mature. Remember, there are A LOT of factors that go into maturing a tank beyond merely the nitrogen cycle. Most of those things are truly not fully understood, other than anecdotal evidence. Neons, for example, die for no apparent reason in new set-ups, even in a fully cycled tank. I got mine after my new tank was set-up for 6 months and I only lost one the night I brought it home - it just never seemed right.
CrustyOnEastCoast
Fish Fanatic
!!
PH: 6.4
Nitrates: 100ppm
This is the first time ever that my PH value has been less than 8.0! Seems odd that it fell so fast with just 100ppm of Nitrates. I have been able to keep the Nitrates down because I have done periodic water changes throughout my cycle (4 of them).
Anyway, I added 1 1/2 teaspoons of sodium bicarbonate and retested my PH a few hours later and it is back up to 8.0. Not surprisingly, there has been no real headway yet on the 12 hour testing results ... but I haven't lost anything either.
Continuing to dose 4ppm worth of ammonia each evening and testing the following morning.
PH: 6.4
Nitrates: 100ppm
This is the first time ever that my PH value has been less than 8.0! Seems odd that it fell so fast with just 100ppm of Nitrates. I have been able to keep the Nitrates down because I have done periodic water changes throughout my cycle (4 of them).
Anyway, I added 1 1/2 teaspoons of sodium bicarbonate and retested my PH a few hours later and it is back up to 8.0. Not surprisingly, there has been no real headway yet on the 12 hour testing results ... but I haven't lost anything either.
Continuing to dose 4ppm worth of ammonia each evening and testing the following morning.
What are your current readings? It seems you have moved into the nitrite spike phase. How low is the nitrite after 24 hours?
CrustyOnEastCoast
Fish Fanatic
I'm in the last phase. I am dosing every day the equivalent of 4ppm ammonia, and all of that ammonia and resulting nitrites get processed consistenly every 24 hours, just not every 12.
I jhave never had such a drastic PH drop before. It has always remained steady. I performed a fishless cycle on my 5 gallon aquarium with the same water supply, and never saw this.
How often should I test my PH? Every 24 hours enough? Can I just keep adding sodium bicarbonate in every times it drops .. or will that eventually cause new problems without occasional water changes?
I jhave never had such a drastic PH drop before. It has always remained steady. I performed a fishless cycle on my 5 gallon aquarium with the same water supply, and never saw this.
How often should I test my PH? Every 24 hours enough? Can I just keep adding sodium bicarbonate in every times it drops .. or will that eventually cause new problems without occasional water changes?
Similar threads
Most reactions
-
351 -
224 -
223 -
192 -
188 -
184 -
160 -
153 -
142 -
139 -
134 -
132 -
109 -
92 -
90