Cross-Breeding Fish.

First of all, most fish will not hybridise if they have mates of their own species available, so the appearance of hybrid fry indicates that the fish are not being kept in appropriate numbers and/or conditions.
Not necessarily. I've got a bunch of at least 20-30 hybrids between albino aeneus and gold laser corys. I have two schools of parents, albinos 7 and gold laser 6, both have males and females in their relative group but they just make no difference between themselves. We consider these hybrids but I can't stop them from mating so I just never collected eggs for the last year and a half ago and I must admit I did it out of curiousity.... what will come out. Well what came out was healthy beautiful corys that look more like laser, bigger than both their parents, healthy, lively, they've no clue they are hybrids.
However, I won't sell them or give them away. I almost had to when my tank started leaking. I explained to my local LFS they are hybrids and all I got is that if they are good looking, they'll take them as they'll surely sell.

I am glad I managed to fix the tank because they are my fish babies but never the less, you can't promote of not inbreeding guppies or platies and then promote to inbreed corys or other fish.

Just with fish tanks because of the close proximity and access to each other, stuff that takes thousands of years to happen in natural habitats, happens on a daily basis in aquarium so one should be very cautious about what they are doing with their fish. There's so little regulation or control over it.
 
There's a university somewhere (US, I think) that's had a strain of swordtails going since the sixties or seventies with no outcrossing, and one of the reasons science uses the zebra danio so much is that the laboratory strains are so inbred as to be practically clones.
And this is quite an interesting point because inbreeding has preserved the unique genes these fish have. When trying to do the opposite by randomly breeding to avoid bad genes one would be unknowingly losing the good genes too. All I can say is we shouldn't be allowed breeding fish in aquariums but then again there are some hobbyists more knowledgeable than "fish scientists" so I wouldn't be sure of the impact of such a ban.
 
snazy said:
 
There's a university somewhere (US, I think) that's had a strain of swordtails going since the sixties or seventies with no outcrossing, and one of the reasons science uses the zebra danio so much is that the laboratory strains are so inbred as to be practically clones.
 All I can say is we shouldn't be allowed breeding fish in aquariums but then again there are some hobbyists more knowledgeable than "fish scientists" so I wouldn't be sure of the impact of such a ban.
 
should we be allowed breeding cats, how's aboot breeding dogs?? Would that be ok??
 
There's a university somewhere (US, I think) that's had a strain of swordtails going since the sixties or seventies with no outcrossing, and one of the reasons science uses the zebra danio so much is that the laboratory strains are so inbred as to be practically clones.
 All I can say is we shouldn't be allowed breeding fish in aquariums but then again there are some hobbyists more knowledgeable than "fish scientists" so I wouldn't be sure of the impact of such a ban.
should we be allowed breeding cats, how's aboot breeding dogs?? Would that be ok??

Well in a way we aren't allowed because for certain breeds one need to be a registered breeder and follow the rules. But then obviously we still let them breed themselves unresponsively.
 
i am one of those that is very much against interbreeding.......it is kind of like breeding a human being with a warthog...
like in the story of " the island of dr. moreau"...
as mentioned before interbreeding has almost destroyed many of the rift lake species , endlers and several S.A. cichlids and livebearers..they "ballon" forms do not live very long and do suffer with real health problems.
 
snazy, you were not interbreeding species, you were interbreeding color morphs of the same species. There is a difference between what happens in the wild and what happens in the hobby. As to how good or bad it may be is up to each to decide, I have my views for sure.
 
But consider the bristlenose pleco. In the wild some albinos are born naturally. But such fish are not well adapted to survive. An albino will not blend into surroundings as well as the brown/green ones and is likely to be lunch for something. And those few that might survive would have to find another albino of the opposite sex to begin to fix this treat. Now consider the long fin variation. Again in the wild this fish, if it existed, would also be at a disadvantage to is its own kind. LF get more size in their fins but less in their body compared to similar aged raised normal fins. they are not as fast either. So they are least likely to survive and breed.
 
Long fins were selective bred from fish with slightly longer fins until this trait became fixed and for a much bigger fin size. The same is true for the albino varieties. Most of these line bred fish which would not exist in the wild thrive in tanks.
 
Think about angels or discus. They all originated from the few wild strains and were then line bred for various colorations and fin traits. A lot of the fish in the hobby do not and could not survive in the wild. But they will all interbreed because they are all really the same "species."
 
However, I know there is likely some species assumed to be interbreeding in the wild although not in great numbers. The black and white Hypancistrus species seem to cross in the wild at times. I have read reports of their doing so in tanks.
 
It is one thing when nature decides something might happen and another when it is artificially induced. But for interbreeding to be a reasonable thing one criteria one might apply is can interbred fish reproduce faithfully. Can they produce viable offspring that are clearly similar generation after generation. For example, glowfish, (an abomination, imo) will produce more glofish, even though spawning them ia not supposed to be legal.
4. Intentional breeding and/or any sale, barter, or trade, of any offspring of GloFish® fluorescent ornamental fish is strictly prohibited.
 
5. Notwithstanding the foregoing, production of these fish is permitted for educational use by teachers and students in bona fide educational institutions, provided, however, that any sale, barter, or trade, of the offspring from such reproduction of these fish is strictly prohibited.
 
6.Please note that these fish may not be sold or transferred to anyone in the State of California, as California Law prohibits it. The producers of GloFish request that all consumers respect this regulation. For more information about this issue, please click here.
from http://www.glofish.com/our-company/license-notice/
 
I keep and spawn a few things and it is all done in species tanks. Even grow out tanks are species based. The common variety tank bn do spawn in community tanks, but these are now so far from an identifiable species they can not be said to exists beyond the hobby.
 
The Xiphophorus center changed it pages but they have identical fish for many many generations of brother to sister breeding such that about 75 years later they have fish that are identical to the original fish from day one.
 
Dr. Gordon realized that to precisely identify the genes responsible for development of cancer, scientists would require genetically identical platyfish and swordtails for research. Therefore, in 1939, he established the Xiphophorus Genetic Stock Center, housed at the American Museum of Natural History and the New York Aquarium until 1993, when transfer of the stock center to Texas State University - San Marcos was completed. During its more than 70 years, the stock center has been directed by Dr. Gordon and Dr. Klaus D. Kallman in New York, and currently by Dr. Ronald Walter at Texas State University - San Marcos.
 
Several of the original genetic strains of platyfish and swordtails developed by Dr. Gordon in the 1930s still are available today; they are virtual genetic clones, the products in some cases of more than 80 generations of brother-to-sister matings.
from http://web.archive.org/web/20100702031354/http://www.xiphophorus.txstate.edu/stockcenter.html
 
Imo, responsible fish keepers should try not to keep species together in a tank if any of the species would never meet in the wild so could never interbreed naturally but might do so in a tank. While we can all make mistakes, we should try to be responsible about the fish we mix together in a same tank when it comes to spawning.
 
snazy, you were not interbreeding species, you were interbreeding color morphs of the same species.
 
 
I am not entirely sure about that. From what I know Bronze corys and Gold lasers are identified as different species. They are just closely related apparently, similarly to endlers and guppies.
 
Bronze & gold lasers are both in the aeneus group so are basically colour variations so interbreeding in aquariums is not uncommon
 
That's the thing, though, is that what constitutes "species" is not a hard-and-fast rule. No-one is actually sure whether Gold Lazer Corydoras is actually a completely different species from Bronze, or not. I believe I'm right in saying that they the GLs have a separate scientific name (ie not c. aenus) but from my reading, there is still ongoing debate as to whether they are truly a separately evolved species, or not.
 
I think a better example of TTA's point would be guppies and mollies.
 
Yes. I agree Lock Man. It's still not confirmed whether gold lasers are aeneus or different species.  However, distinctively different cory species are known to intebreed too and produce viable offspring. So mine mating isn't a proof they are both aeneus.
When I asked on planetcatfish a couple of years ago the opinion was that gold lasers could be in the group of corydoras melanotaenia.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=111

Personally I notice gold lasers are different in shape to bronze corys. Their snout is rounder and they are way smaller in size when adults. The gold laser males are 1/3rd smaller than my smallest albino male. And I was told the same from the shop I bought them, that they do not grow as big as most common corys so it's not exactly a personal opinion.
 
snazy- you may be correct, but here is on what I based what I said:
 
 
This is from the Japanese Cory site Corydoras Encyclopedia. Note 4 varieties of aeneus. I assume all the aeneus would spawn with each other. Nature sometimes fixes traits just like it can be done in tanks? The difference is when we put a few of the above of different varieties in the limited space of any size tank, the opportunity for them to interbreed is greatly magnified. So in tanks results can be obtained with ease that likely would not occur in nature.
 
One note re the above, re the geographical locations given for the above aenaeus:
aenaeus Place:whole-area of SouthAmerica
aenaeus "variety" Place:whole-area of SouthAmerica
aenaeus "albino" Place: none listed
aeneus"illuminatus" Place:peru
 
I do not think there are many wild populations of albino fish in nature since color matters for most of them.
 
Never forget that corys adore us. :p
 
I know, the info is confusing. I don't think anyone has confirmed for sure yet either way.
 
I used to live near "Tring Museum" - It's a natural history museum and contains amoung other things, some bizarre experiments in cross breeding animals. The  Zebra-Giraffe sticks in my mind. The weird and bizarre results of cross breeding  laid out for all to see.
But , as I understand it, or was explained to me as a child visiting the museum, you can cross breed all manner of animals and get a freak, Like "mule" from a horse and donkey, but they can't then go on to breed mules. It's just a one-off. It's an anomaly.
 
However breeding colours and variations, is not interbreeding at all, and just like your "sweet peas", you can go on to form strains and variations genetically.
 
There's no way a zebra and a giraffe could produce a hybrid, they're not closely related enough. Are you sure it wasn't an okapi, or a quagga perhaps?

It's actually very unusual and difficult to produce hybrids and the two parents have to be from very closely related species, like horse/donkeys/zebras, or lions/tigers.
 
Trust me, because it was cheap entrance fee and near our school, we were taken there for every school field trip. This is artificial insemination obviously. Well worth a visit!
 

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