Cameras

[SLC Flyfishing]

Canon and Nikon aren't the world leaders for no reason.
And it gets my back up when people try to compare a compact or bridge camera with a DSLR they are worlds apart.
Back to the original question he wants a camera with changeable lens so look at the starter end of Canon and Nikon DSLR.

Does it get up your back that you don't even know that Pentax and Sony as well as Olympus all make interchangeable lens DSLR's? DSLR's are Pentax's main offering as far as cameras are concerned.

You can also look into the Pentax K100D "super" which is much more versatile than the Nikon or Canon offerings in the entry level DSLR category. It has built in Image Stabilization (which neither Canon or Nikon offer) it has support for both screw-driven and motor driven autofocus lenses (which neither Canon or Nikon offer) and it will mount and work with every single k-mount lens from any manufacturer ever created (which again Canon and Nikon can't offer) Canon has abandoned their lens mount twice, it's bound to happen again soon. Nikon still has some screw driven lenses but the D40 and D40X won't work with them. Pentax DSLR's have contacts for the new SDM motor driven lenses but still maintain a screw drive for older autofocus lenses which are plentiful.

I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, but I really can't stand when people tell someone to only worry about Canon and Nikon. Tells me they really don't know too much about Photography. Go to a real Photography forum and see if anyone feels comfortable telling you that Canon and Nikon are the only good brands! They won't simply because it's just not true.

SLC

 

[tommy6206]

Canon and Nikon aren't the world leaders for no reason.
And it gets my back up when people try to compare a compact or bridge camera with a DSLR they are worlds apart.
Back to the original question he wants a camera with changeable lens so look at the starter end of Canon and Nikon DSLR.

Does it get up your back that you don't even know that Pentax and Sony as well as Olympus all make interchangeable lens DSLR's? DSLR's are Pentax's main offering as far as cameras are concerned.

You can also look into the Pentax K100D "super" which is much more versatile than the Nikon or Canon offerings in the entry level DSLR category. It has built in Image Stabilization (which neither Canon or Nikon offer) it has support for both screw-driven and motor driven autofocus lenses (which neither Canon or Nikon offer) and it will mount and work with every single k-mount lens from any manufacturer ever created (which again Canon and Nikon can't offer) Canon has abandoned their lens mount twice, it's bound to happen again soon. Nikon still has some screw driven lenses but the D40 and D40X won't work with them. Pentax DSLR's have contacts for the new SDM motor driven lenses but still maintain a screw drive for older autofocus lenses which are plentiful.

I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, but I really can't stand when people tell someone to only worry about Canon and Nikon. Tells me they really don't know too much about Photography. Go to a real Photography forum and see if anyone feels comfortable telling you that Canon and Nikon are the only good brands! They won't simply because it's just not true.

SLC

Hi
Yes I do know about Pentax Sony etc you also forgot about Sigma and fuji there all very good little camera'a but not as good as Canon or Nikon imho just check the real world spec and performanc.
Some of them use the newer 4 thirds system and dont have the range of lens yet. Olmpus lens are exspensive.
I have used and have mates that have had camera's from the others listed but all have changed to Canon or Nikon as said above they didn'y get to be world leaders for nothing.
Any way not going to get into a slanging match as to who's better than who.
p.s
I do belong to a few photography forums and they will agree unless of caurse you join a one brand forum then they would be bios.

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

None except Olympus and Panasonic and Leica use the 4/3rds system.

Sony Nikon and Pentax all used Sony sensors, Canon uses their own. Now Pentax is designing their own and having Samsung make them, they are partnered and Samsung has their own DSLR's that use the Pentax design and lenses.

But did you know that the Nikon D200, Nikon D80 and Pentax K10D (which I shoot with) Samsung GX-10, and Sony Alpha A-100 all use the exact same sensor? Bet not!

I'd pick Pentax glass over anyone else's any day, (and I shot Nikon for 7 years before I got my K10D so like your friends I have a lot of experience there).

Nikon and Canon are the #1 brands because they are the largest and have the most $$$ for advertisement. Sony will eclipse them all very soon since they have more money and resources than both Canon and Nikon combined. Pentax is now owned by Hoya (the makers of Nikon lens glass as well as everyone elses except Canon) and also partnered with Samsung (again more $$$ and resources than Canon and Nikon combined) so in a few years people will be saying Pentax and Sony are #1 and they are #1 for a reason. It won't be because their stuff is so much better (Canon and Nikon's stuff has been reviewed as worse than a lot of Sony/Minolta and Pentax stuff lately) it will be because they'll have the largest brand recognition. The perception that Canon and Nikon are better right now is due to the overwhelmingly Canon/Nikon advertisement advantage. That will change (already is)

If you really think Canon and Nikon are better you've simply taken their bait nothing more!

I'll be the first one to say that all the DSLR's with their best lenses attached can produce images that are of equal quality, so will everyone at popphoto.com forums and DPreview forums (that one's a little more difficult because they separate them by brand but if they are telling the truth/know what they are talking about they'll tell you.) And if you compare them objectively feature for feature you won't find a better camera from Nikon or Canon unless you go up to their $5-8 thousand dollar pro models that aren't made by Pentax or Sony or Olympus right now. Then you don't have anything to make a balanced comparison with. But there are very successful pro's out there shooting with Pentax K10D's (google Benjamin Kanarek and you'll see what this camera is capable of).

In the end all the brands are great, just pick the one that feels right in your hands and has controls that make sense to you. Because if you don't like the feel of the camera you won't like shooting with it and you'll think it is a bad camera even if it's perfectly capable. You won't be able to tell the difference between a photo shot with a Nikon or Canon vs a photo shot with a Pentax or Sony and that's the truth. And if you aren't good at composure and knowing how to get the most out of a DSLR then no amount of "magic Canon or Nikon goodness" is going to make your photos look good. It's all about what you can do with what you have. The real artist can make art with anything, he simply picks the tool that suits him best (or what the advertisements tell him suits him best.)

SLC

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

OK, here's a test for you.

I rounded up an image from a popular Nikon Model, a Popular Canon model, and a Popular Pentax model. 5 points to the person who gets all 3 right, 5 more if you can name which camera it was that made the image.

Good luck with it, let me know when you have it figured out.

SLC

 

[Dave Spencer]

I'd pick Pentax glass over anyone else's any day, (and I shot Nikon for 7 years before I got my K10D so like your friends I have a lot of experience there).

I'll be the first one to say that all the DSLR's with their best lenses attached can produce images that are of equal quality,

A little contradiction there, SLC.

The perception that Canon and Nikon are better right now is due to the overwhelmingly Canon/Nikon advertisement advantage. That will change (already is)

I have three friends who are professional photographers ie it is the job that feeds their kids. All three would choose medium format first, but when they are out of the studio, it is Nikon or Canon. What percentage of professional photographers do you suppose are blinded by their advertising campaigns?

Nikon and Canon are the #1 brands because they are the largest and have the most $$$ for advertisement. Sony will eclipse them all very soon since they have more money and resources than both Canon and Nikon combined.

So it will be OK for Sony to have the most money for advertising? Good luck to Sony on eclipsing the Nikon D3.

In the end all the brands are great, just pick the one that feels right in your hands and has controls that make sense to you. Because if you don't like the feel of the camera you won't like shooting with it and you'll think it is a bad camera even if it's perfectly capable. You won't be able to tell the difference between a photo shot with a Nikon or Canon vs a photo shot with a Pentax or Sony and that's the truth. And if you aren't good at composure and knowing how to get the most out of a DSLR then no amount of "magic Canon or Nikon goodness" is going to make your photos look good. It's all about what you can do with what you have. The real artist can make art with anything, he simply picks the tool that suits him best (or what the advertisements tell him suits him best.)

I agree with this 100%. However, photography can be one seriously expensive hobby, so we have to rely on reviews, market share and what the photographers we admire most, use. This is where Nikon and Canon walk away with the title.

SLC, you seem to be rabidly anti Canon and Nikon, to the point of downright rudeness at times. Let`s all just share the same hobby and enjoy it.

Dave.

 

[tommy6206]

OK, here's a test for you.

I rounded up an image from a popular Nikon Model, a Popular Canon model, and a Popular Pentax model. 5 points to the person who gets all 3 right, 5 more if you can name which camera it was that made the image.

Good luck with it, let me know when you have it figured out.

SLC

1 Nikon D300
2 Pentax K20d
3 Canon 40D

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

OK, here's a test for you.

I rounded up an image from a popular Nikon Model, a Popular Canon model, and a Popular Pentax model. 5 points to the person who gets all 3 right, 5 more if you can name which camera it was that made the image.

Good luck with it, let me know when you have it figured out.

SLC

1 Nikon D300
2 Pentax K20d
3 Canon 40D

What if I told you I traded the metadata around on a few of them?

SLC

 

[tommy6206]

So what if you did. You can play silly buggers all day long
You don't need to justify to or any one else why you got a Pentax
I bought Canon because I believe there the best as do most pro's just my opion.
Can we now get this back on topic.

 

[Ian H]

I have a fujifine pix S5600 and it's awesome for some one like me who only wants to take goodish pics of things i dont see the point it spending silly amounts of money on a fancy camera. Fair enough it can't change lenses or anything, but just on auto mode i manage to get great pics!

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

So what if you did. You can play silly buggers all day long
You don't need to justify to or any one else why you got a Pentax
I bought Canon because I believe there the best as do most pro's just my opion.
Can we now get this back on topic.

I'm not trying to justify to anyone why I got a Pentax, like I said I had Nikon D200 before that. I'm just trying to prove a point that you can't really tell which camera made which image. You had to try and look at the metadata first before you made your guess! So is Canon really better than the others or is it your high-mindedness that makes you feel that way? I've never made the assertion that one brand is better than another, I've maintained that they are all cpable of equal results and it's the end results that matter!

Lets see some of your photos that you made with the "best" DSLR brand out there eh?

SLC

 

[Darkstar]

I certainly didn't buy the 'best' camera....I just bought what the advertisements told me to lol.

Even with my limited knowledge on cameras though, I can tell it's rather unfair to put 3 different pictures together and tell people to guess which one is which. I wouldnt' even be able to tell you which was which if they'd all taken exactly the same photograph but I could probably tell you which one I prefer.

Anyway, as I said on the previous page my lumix fz5 produced far better pics on auto-mode then I'm producing now with a canon 400d....so no matter how good it is on the scale of great cameras, I still have loads to learn before I'll be getting anywhere near the best out of it.

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

I certainly didn't buy the 'best' camera....I just bought what the advertisements told me to lol.

Even with my limited knowledge on cameras though, I can tell it's rather unfair to put 3 different pictures together and tell people to guess which one is which. I wouldnt' even be able to tell you which was which if they'd all taken exactly the same photograph but I could probably tell you which one I prefer.

Anyway, as I said on the previous page my lumix fz5 produced far better pics on auto-mode then I'm producing now with a canon 400d....so no matter how good it is on the scale of great cameras, I still have loads to learn before I'll be getting anywhere near the best out of it.

That's my point exactly Darkstar! Some people can get photographs they can sell for thousands of dollars with point and shoot cameras and "crappy" Olympus/Sony/Pentax models, others spend $1,500+ on a nice Canon or Nikon and expect that it will give them good pictures (not saying that's you darkstar, please don't take it to be so!) The point is that you can clearly see that all these images I posted are equally pleasing to the eye, none stand out as being technically superior to another. Without delving into the metadata nobody can tell what camera made what image. So why the argument that Canon and Nikon are better? It's a load of rubbish and it does nothing but a disservice to anyone it's told to! I don't think Pentax or Sony or Olympus are better either, just that they all deserve a look when making a purchase decision since they all make products of equal quality. And if you learn to use them properly and learn how to edit digital images correctly you will get all you ever wanted or needed from any of the brands. There is nothing realistically offered from Nikon or Canon that isn't offered by any other brand and that's the truth!

To the original poster: If you want a Canon or a Nikon camera that's your perogative and we all support you in that, (not that you need our support). But let me tell you that there are tons of other alternatives out there that some would have you pass by, they are doing you a disservice by suggesting you don't consider something that may just be a perfect fit for you and your shooting style! Just make sure you explore all your options, it's not like you are picking a lunch, we're talking a bunch of money and you want to be certain that you spend it in a way that suits you and your preferences! That's the only thing I'm trying to get across.

SLC

 

[tommy6206]

Nobody has said to pass-by any other camera and only go for Canon or Nikon.
And as for all camera's being equal is simply not true. Its not down to pixel count but what the camera does with those pixels. ISO noise is another big factor and canon is ahead of them all FACT.
gimmicks don't take better pictures useful function help you to.But at the end of the day the person behind the camera is what counts and knows how to use it plus a decent camera and lens helps.
What ever brand you go for you enter into a system so extra lens /flash etc the more available the better.
Any one can stick the camera in idiot mode and fire away but try using the manual modes you will find its much better.
If you look at any major event a good 90% of the pro's are using Canon all you see is a sea of white lenses."Canon"
As for the pics you posted above there is a big difference in the quality of the samples you supplied but post up some proper high res pictures with 100% crops from center and corners + hight and low ISO settings from the cameras you listed and you will see the difference.
If you wish to carry on in your little dream world then carry on.

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

Nobody has said to pass-by any other camera and only go for Canon or Nikon.
And as for all camera's being equal is simply not true. Its not down to pixel count but what the camera does with those pixels. ISO noise is another big factor and canon is ahead of them all FACT.
gimmicks don't take better pictures useful function help you to.But at the end of the day the person behind the camera is what counts and knows how to use it plus a decent camera and lens helps.
What ever brand you go for you enter into a system so extra lens /flash etc the more available the better.
Any one can stick the camera in idiot mode and fire away but try using the manual modes you will find its much better.
If you look at any major event a good 90% of the pro's are using Canon all you see is a sea of white lenses."Canon"
As for the pics you posted above there is a big difference in the quality of the samples you supplied but post up some proper high res pictures with 100% crops from center and corners + hight and low ISO settings from the cameras you listed and you will see the difference.
If you wish to carry on in your little dream world then carry on.

Fact, Canon is dead last of the three I posted in high ISO performance, Nikon is currently first but the new Pentax K20D is suspected to pass it up when the reviews start coming out, and it's got a higher resolution sensor than the other two. You always see a sea of white lenses at sporting events true, but did you know that Sony's and Pentax's ultra high end telephoto lenses (the type used for shooting sports etc) are also white? Who said anything about idiot mode? Of course anyone can shoot in auto mode. Did you know the K20D and K10D have no scene modes, they expect you to know how to use their camera when you buy it. Pentax has more available lenses than Canon if you consider that all their kmount lenses ever made will meter and function flawlessly with the digital bodies, can't say anything about Canon standing by their customers like that, they've abandoned their lens mount twice in the last two decades sucks to be you if you had a raft full of outdated Canon lenses and no chance to upgrade your camera body!

All I did for the pics above was to google sample images for each of the cameras, the Nikon and Canon ones were both taken from flikr the Pentax one is a full res copy from their website. Fact of the matter is you couldn't tell me which camera made which image simply by looking at them, that should tell you something shouldn't it?

Look if you think you can prove me wrong then do it! Find some full res images and post them in the way you want, make it as fair and even as possible and I'd be very interested to see what they all look like! I'll bet that you will be surprised.

Finally I'm not living in a dream world, I'm in the real world where people prefer to educate them selves about their options before making large purchases. If you wish to carry on in a dream land where market share and advertisement determines image quality then by all means....

Oh and welcome to the forums by the way! You've made a great starting impression.

SLC

 

[nakomis90]

Ok guys calm it lol!

i personally dont believe in one camera being better than another....
the question being.... the person behind it...im a photographer... although god help my fish pictures....

although if it comes to it the Canon range ive used... and also fuji and nikon all together i love them all for different reasons.... th nikon is a finer detail...
canon has far better lenses and fuji is simple too use and get some great detail from it from it....

taken with the canon eos 350d


taken with a nikon d40

taken with a fujifilm finepix S5500