Bad advice in the "Betta Care" thread...

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Who even lets betta fish fight anyway? If you don't want them alive, just sell them to someone, sure they will survive but you will never see that betta again. Letting two bettas fight to death is like giving a gun to a cow and telling it to shoot another cow.
Thats the whole point that is what they want to do, just imagine how happy the winning fish will feel. There are a lot of people here that are particular about giving their fish what they need, but then advise to keep a Betta in a box by itself, I don't think that is fear on the Betta.
 
Sometimes, I think you're just a troll. Being contrarian for the sake of starting an argument. Am I right?

On this site there is always discussion about giving fish what they want because they are genetically weird for different environments and habitats. You talk about Cory's having to be on sand and Tetras in schools of ten or more. Bettas are genetically weird to fight, but you keep them separated from each other. I think the minimum size tank to keep Bettas is 200 liters, two fish in the tank, and then if they want to fight, they can. But they have room to get away from each other. That way they will be a lot happier.

Except the losing fish can't escape if they're in a tank. Now you know that that is a ridiculous and cruel suggestion, so do you just do it because you like to rile people up? Because you're sulking that not many people agree with you about cories and gravel, for goodness sake? So petty and sulky. Come on, man.
 
Who even lets betta fish fight anyway? If you don't want them alive, just sell them to someone, sure they will survive but you will never see that betta again. Letting two bettas fight to death is like giving a gun to a cow and telling it to shoot another cow.

Cruel people in some places would pit two males against each other and bet which would win. Like people who fight dogs and cockerels, same deal. People with no empathy for creatures.
 
This thread has gone off pretty quickly.

Bettas are not all fighters. Strains of domestic B splendens have been bred for aggression. They have been used in gambling, like fighting dogs. But no one here will deny fighting dogs were bred for aggression as well as physical shape. It's exactly the same for Bettas. It seems a fair number of male Betta splendens are lousy fighters, and a lot of them are dumped in Thai markets for very low prices. Or so friends who've hit the Betta markets there have told me. I've had plakat, short fins from the Bangkok 'cheapo' market, and they were not fighters. I always figured they were gamblers culls.
I've kept wild caught Betta splendens from Laos, and they were not especially fierce. Males coexisted. The fighting that excites people who are into blood sports was not evident. So that attempt to rattle people's cages falls flat. Males who are familiar with each other from a young age get along, with no love but just flaring of fins.
One reason they are raised in cups is that domestic forms, with their huge finnage, would not sell here if the fins were ragged from sparring with their siblings. You want big fancy fins? Your fish will be jarred til you get it to keep the price up. Is your fish a fighter? Maybe, maybe not, But finding out would be ugly.
B splendens can live in .5 of a gallon. The entire argument is if they should. They can live without filtration, and with their air breathing abilities, are largely able to ignore the cycle. Yup, that's what I said. Now, would I want to take keep the fish in sub-optimal conditions? No, but I do have the choice. Betta splendens will live like that. Do they need 5 or 10 gallons? No. Are they better off in larger small tanks? Yes.
In small tanks, if they have frankenfinnage, the folds in the fins will provide homes for bacteria and fungus that can kill the fish. But with no infection, lifespan doesn't change.
I have noticed a lot of very long finned Bettas dying in the early days of life in a good tank. Think about it. Jarred in stagnant water the moment they show their sex. Exercise once a day when the cup gets dumped and filled. Can you imagine how poor their muscle tone is? They are badly out of shape. Now, add massive finnage that creates drag.
Then blame the cycle.

Do we do cruel things to animals? Obviously. We can debate what the cruelty might be here. Using small containers? Buying intentionally deformed fish? They can be very loaded discussions, but opinions should never be presented as facts.

For the record, I would never again keep a splendens with long fins. If I did, I'd use a 5 gallon.
 
This thread has gone off pretty quickly.

Bettas are not all fighters. Strains of domestic B splendens have been bred for aggression. They have been used in gambling, like fighting dogs. But no one here will deny fighting dogs were bred for aggression as well as physical shape. It's exactly the same for Bettas. It seems a fair number of male Betta splendens are lousy fighters, and a lot of them are dumped in Thai markets for very low prices. Or so friends who've hit the Betta markets there have told me. I've had plakat, short fins from the Bangkok 'cheapo' market, and they were not fighters. I always figured they were gamblers culls.
I've kept wild caught Betta splendens from Laos, and they were not especially fierce. Males coexisted. The fighting that excites people who are into blood sports was not evident. So that attempt to rattle people's cages falls flat. Males who are familiar with each other from a young age get along, with no love but just flaring of fins.
One reason they are raised in cups is that domestic forms, with their huge finnage, would not sell here if the fins were ragged from sparring with their siblings. You want big fancy fins? Your fish will be jarred til you get it to keep the price up. Is your fish a fighter? Maybe, maybe not, But finding out would be ugly.
B splendens can live in .5 of a gallon. The entire argument is if they should. They can live without filtration, and with their air breathing abilities, are largely able to ignore the cycle. Yup, that's what I said. Now, would I want to take keep the fish in sub-optimal conditions? No, but I do have the choice. Betta splendens will live like that. Do they need 5 or 10 gallons? No. Are they better off in larger small tanks? Yes.
In small tanks, if they have frankenfinnage, the folds in the fins will provide homes for bacteria and fungus that can kill the fish. But with no infection, lifespan doesn't change.
I have noticed a lot of very long finned Bettas dying in the early days of life in a good tank. Think about it. Jarred in stagnant water the moment they show their sex. Exercise once a day when the cup gets dumped and filled. Can you imagine how poor their muscle tone is? They are badly out of shape. Now, add massive finnage that creates drag.
Then blame the cycle.

Do we do cruel things to animals? Obviously. We can debate what the cruelty might be here. Using small containers? Buying intentionally deformed fish? They can be very loaded discussions, but opinions should never be presented as facts.

For the record, I would never again keep a splendens with long fins. If I did, I'd use a 5 gallon.

I like your posts a lot, you're now one of my favourites :D:lol:

I feel the same about the long-finned bettas. Beautiful to look at, but heavy fins to drag around, especially for an unfit fish and as it ages even more so. Microtears can easily happen and allow bacteria and fungus to take hold, and a stressed fish is less able to fight this off with their weakened immune system.

I love the look of the short finned, wild type bettas. Seem to be much more active, given that they can swim more easily.
 
This thread has gone off pretty quickly.

Bettas are not all fighters. Strains of domestic B splendens have been bred for aggression. They have been used in gambling, like fighting dogs. But no one here will deny fighting dogs were bred for aggression as well as physical shape. It's exactly the same for Bettas. It seems a fair number of male Betta splendens are lousy fighters, and a lot of them are dumped in Thai markets for very low prices. Or so friends who've hit the Betta markets there have told me. I've had plakat, short fins from the Bangkok 'cheapo' market, and they were not fighters. I always figured they were gamblers culls.
I've kept wild caught Betta splendens from Laos, and they were not especially fierce. Males coexisted. The fighting that excites people who are into blood sports was not evident. So that attempt to rattle people's cages falls flat. Males who are familiar with each other from a young age get along, with no love but just flaring of fins.
One reason they are raised in cups is that domestic forms, with their huge finnage, would not sell here if the fins were ragged from sparring with their siblings. You want big fancy fins? Your fish will be jarred til you get it to keep the price up. Is your fish a fighter? Maybe, maybe not, But finding out would be ugly.
B splendens can live in .5 of a gallon. The entire argument is if they should. They can live without filtration, and with their air breathing abilities, are largely able to ignore the cycle. Yup, that's what I said. Now, would I want to take keep the fish in sub-optimal conditions? No, but I do have the choice. Betta splendens will live like that. Do they need 5 or 10 gallons? No. Are they better off in larger small tanks? Yes.
In small tanks, if they have frankenfinnage, the folds in the fins will provide homes for bacteria and fungus that can kill the fish. But with no infection, lifespan doesn't change.
I have noticed a lot of very long finned Bettas dying in the early days of life in a good tank. Think about it. Jarred in stagnant water the moment they show their sex. Exercise once a day when the cup gets dumped and filled. Can you imagine how poor their muscle tone is? They are badly out of shape. Now, add massive finnage that creates drag.
Then blame the cycle.

Do we do cruel things to animals? Obviously. We can debate what the cruelty might be here. Using small containers? Buying intentionally deformed fish? They can be very loaded discussions, but opinions should never be presented as facts.

For the record, I would never again keep a splendens with long fins. If I did, I'd use a 5 gallon.
Totally agree! I love this post!
 
Sometimes, I think you're just a troll. Being contrarian for the sake of starting an argument. Am I right?



Except the losing fish can't escape if they're in a tank. Now you know that that is a ridiculous and cruel suggestion, so do you just do it because you like to rile people up? Because you're sulking that not many people agree with you about cories and gravel, for goodness sake? So petty and sulky. Come on, man.
No words can describe how good this post mkes me feel 😅
 
As far as the fighting goes, I had the experience of being in a North American pet store when fighting Bettas arrived. I watched guys buying the bags and betting while they were still in the shop. The entire scene was extremely obvious, even if it wasn't happening in a language I speak. So yes, it still happens, and yes, fighting strains are still out there.
 
I love it how people who have never bred a fish or kept them in any numbers can have such strong opinions about their behavior. I love how you can google your heart out and become a fish expert on every fish that ever existed.
I have on the other hand bred hundreds of varieties of fish and studied their behavior; I understand how to set up tanks so that fish can live together peacefully and not chew their heads off. Remember nothing that we do is natural in this hobby. Putting a fish on its own in a tiny tank watching TV all day is what I class as cruel.
 
I love it how people who have never bred a fish or kept them in any numbers can have such strong opinions about their behavior. I love how you can google your heart out and become a fish expert on every fish that ever existed.
I have on the other hand bred hundreds of varieties of fish and studied their behavior; I understand how to set up tanks so that fish can live together peacefully and not chew their heads off. Remember nothing that we do is natural in this hobby. Putting a fish on its own in a tiny tank watching TV all day is what I class as cruel.
Well we cant watch our tanks ALL day either... We are not saying that you dont know anything. What we are saying is that is is cruel to put two fish together that you know could kill eachother. It puts stress on them. It doesnt take a lot of knowledge on fish keeping to know that two male betta can and will kill eachother when kept in a confined space
 
Well we cant watch our tanks ALL day either... We are not saying that you dont know anything. What we are saying is that is is cruel to put two fish together that you know could kill eachother. It puts stress on them. It doesnt take a lot of knowledge on fish keeping to know that two male betta can and will kill eachother when kept in a confined space
If you read my post correctly, my suggestion was a 200-liter tank for two fish, hardly what you would call a confined space considering the fish are only around two inches long.
 
I love it how people who have never bred a fish or kept them in any numbers can have such strong opinions about their behavior. I love how you can google your heart out and become a fish expert on every fish that ever existed.
I have on the other hand bred hundreds of varieties of fish and studied their behavior; I understand how to set up tanks so that fish can live together peacefully and not chew their heads off. Remember nothing that we do is natural in this hobby. Putting a fish on its own in a tiny tank watching TV all day is what I class as cruel.

Your resentment that people don't bow down to you and worship you as THE expert is showing...
 
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