Bacterial Additives...

[eaglesaquarium]

Sounds good. Mine is a continuation of a fish in cycle with 3 Tiger Barbs and 3 Green Barbs in a 50 gallon tank. Readings prior to adding Turbo Start were 1mg/l Ammonia, 0 Nitrite and PH 7.6. I will update later today after 24 hours have elapsed from initial dose.

Temp?

 

[KISSfn]

75.4 F.

 

[KISSfn]

Initial dose of 1.5 ounces Fritz Zyme Turbo Start 700 added yesterday to tank water directly. 24 hours later - Ammonia 1mg/l, PH 7.6, Temp 75.3. No obvious need to test Nitrite. Label directions indicate up to 5x normal dose can be done to speed process. Added remaining 2.5 ounces to filter media directly (Eheim Ehfisubstrat Pro).

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Initial dose of 1.5 ounces Fritz Zyme Turbo Start 700 added yesterday to tank water directly. 24 hours later - Ammonia 1mg/l, PH 7.6, Temp 75.3. No obvious need to test Nitrite. Label directions indicate up to 5x normal dose can be done to speed process. Added remaining 2.5 ounces to filter media directly (Eheim Ehfisubstrat Pro).

Have you done any water changes?

Please keep us all updated. I've added your information to the first post.

 

[KISSfn]

Last 50% water change yesterday before purchase of Fritz product. I do not plan on changing any water unless ammonia levels rise or after some time to allow product to possibly establish itself. Thanks!

 

[Gelt]

This is becoming a very intersting experiment, please post your logs. i hope to see at least 1 bottled product work!

if not then hey ' Tried and tested on TFF ' with evidence!

Good luck

G

 

[KISSfn]

Eaglesaquarium is posting the logs to the first post on page one.

 

[ian]

Whilst i like things like this...I think we need to remember that controls are different ie, dates on test kits, the accuracy of of the shelf test kits (which are OK but not brilliant, not good enough for scientific experiments), and the results remain “statistically significant”, meaning that if only 2 people are doing it, that it really doesn't give us a wide section of the community. Remember readers, critique as you will, but critique well.

Personally, i have seen/read so many people loose fish from bottled bacteria or end up in a fish in cycle from bacteria bottles, that i remain very sceptical about these products. I have also read some of the Dr Tim stuff and i'm still yet to see any independent studies on this matter, they have all been done by either companies that actually own the product (which voids the study straight away), or a sister company.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Whilst i like things like this...I think we need to remember that controls are different ie, dates on test kits, the accuracy of of the shelf test kits (which are OK but not brilliant, not good enough for scientific experiments), and the results remain “statistically significant”, meaning that if only 2 people are doing it, that it really doesn't give us a wide section of the community. Remember readers, critique as you will, but critique well.

Personally, i have seen/read so many people loose fish from bottled bacteria or end up in a fish in cycle from bacteria bottles, that i remain very sceptical about these products. I have also read some of the Dr Tim stuff and i'm still yet to see any independent studies on this matter, they have all been done by either companies that actually own the product (which voids the study straight away), or a sister company.

I agree whole-heartedly with you on this.


The goal is not to automaatically trust the product without any testing, but rather to do a fishless cycle with the product and see if the product can reduce the duration. The hope is that something works, and that these fishless cycles can be cut down in duration dramatically. I certainly wouldn't condone using this product with fish immediately, even if it did work for both participants in this "study". There are a TON of unknown variables included in this. The only thing that I would like to see come out of this is that for someone who isn't interested in a 60+ day fishless cycle, this might be a happy middle ground. It wouldn't require the time of a full fishless cycle from scratch, nor would it require the work of a full fish-in cycle with all the water changes. I am hoping that this provides an alternative for folks who don't have access to mature media. That would, of course, be the choice of everyone, but it isn't exactly possible for everyone.

 

[ian]

Just out of interest, can i just ask what scientific background you have Eagles?

Good luck with this BTW.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Just out of interest, can i just ask what scientific background you have Eagles?

Good luck with this BTW.

High school science teacher - physics, not biology!

 

[ian]

sorry i only ask, because it's good to have people with a background like yours on the forum. I shall be watching this with interest.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

sorry i only ask, because it's good to have people with a background like yours on the forum. I shall be watching this with interest.

Thanks.


I just keep hearing folks saying that these additives don't work, but I haven't seen any studies to prove that they don't. Common sense would say that there has to be something to these products, even if they don't work in many cases because improper handling, excessive shelf stay, etc. I've heard good things about the original Biospira, so that's why I am trying SafeStart. If it works, then I will be happy, and there might be something to this stuff. If it doesn't, that doesn't mean that it can't work, but just that it didn't. But, any product that comes with such a "buyer beware" disclaimer is disconcerting.


On a side note, I was in a LFS, and spoke to the owner. I asked if he carried SafeStart, One & Only or Turbo Start. He pointed to another product, I can't remember what it was now, and said "This stuff is better." He said, "I've been selling a bunch of it recently." I asked what the expiration date was on it. He said, "I'm not aware of one, but I've been selling so much of it that it doesn't sit on the shelf here very long. It works great." I said, "Really? Have you used it?" Quick backpedal from him... "No, I stay on top of my tanks, pretty regular, I don't have a need for it." So I asked, "So, how do you know it works?" He said, "Well, I've been selling a lot." Great stuff!

 

[OldMan47]

The only one that I am aware of associated with Tim Havonec is the One and Only product. If you want to go by sales hype, that would be your best bet for a decent product.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

The only one that I am aware of associated with Tim Havonec is the One and Only product. If you want to go by sales hype, that would be your best bet for a decent product.

Yes, that's true, and I seriously considered it. It is being "tested" by KISSfn right now.

I went with SafeStart, because it is the product that Tetra decided was "better" than Biospira - which is the only product that anyone seems to give much credence to (plus it was $2 cheaper to treat a 30 gallon tank ). I got it from FosterandSmith's (and comes with a 100% guarantee. If it doesn't work, I plan to send it back and try the other one!)



EDIT***
I believe Havonec was a part of the process of developing Biospira, but I could be wrong about that.