API Testing and Seriously Fish

[xxBarneyxx]

I am surprised at what I find on " Seriously Fish"

I think part of the problem is that a lot of the information on there is actually pretty good (fish background and info), except for the parts that are most important (water parameters).

Glad you posted this though as it made me take a much closer look at my information sources.

Many times we hear of an ammonia 'spike' and, whilst genuine spikes do occur, sometimes there is a build up in levels, or there are other things going on in the water. Again, a liquid test would show this more effectively than a strip.

Would it though? If there is a build up over time a test strip will go from a zero reading to a non-zero reading as soon as it starts.

No matter what test kit you are using what actions will you take at this point? Probably the same no matter if its 1ppm ammonia of 5 ppm ammonia, check your kit, check for dead animals, do water changes to bring it to zero.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

I think part of the problem is that a lot of the information on there is actually pretty good (fish background and info), except for the parts that are most important (water parameters).

Glad you posted this though as it made me take a much closer look at my information sources.


Would it though? If there is a build up over time a test strip will go from a zero reading to a non-zero reading as soon as it starts.

No matter what test kit you are using what actions will you take at this point? Probably the same no matter if its 1ppm ammonia of 5 ppm ammonia, check your kit, check for dead animals, do water changes to bring it to zero.

It's more for the 'other levels' that I'd be paying attention.

It's worth noting that, especially in a larger tank, when a fish pees its ammonia, the ammonia level at the other end of the tank doesn't suddenly shoot up.
When we talk of a 'zero' ammonia reading, that is relative...there will also be ammonia in the tank as long as it has living things in it, passing waste.

Any test kit will have a series of colour bars, to help us gauge whatever the reading is.
How often do we find that the colour we see in the tube, doesn't match either the lower or higher reading? In those instances, the actual reading is somewhere between the two.
This is of little interest to many and such a degree of precision is unnecessary to all bar the biochemists amongst us.
Those colour bars could be produced as a continuous spectrum, but this would provide more info than is needed and confusion would inevitably result.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Ok, if you have an established tank and cycling process is done and dusted then test strips as a guide if there is any ammonia and nitrite is ok I suppose.

However if you are cycling, the fishless cycle method then you do need to know how much ammonia and nitrite is present in the water column so you can keep track of how the cycle is progressing and when to add ammonia dosages. Fairly important to have a accurate enough reading for those factors.

But as a side note, telling everyone what’s the point of those API master test kit is a negative view and folks want to do the right thing by their tanks and livestock and if they want to purchase those test kits or whichever brand they wish then that is their prerogative.

The recommendation of ApI master test kit is advisory rather than mandatory for these new to the hobby as being the cheaper and more accurate test kit that is widely available and at a price that is affordable to most, then that they have a good way of learning and testing about the nitrogen cycle.
Simple as that really.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Oh and by the way I do agree that some of the advice given on Seriously Fish is not infallible and there can be inconsistencies but as a guide to start your research with, then it’s fine starting point imho.

 

[DoubleDutch]

Seriously fish mentions minimum and maximum values and levels they can survive and not the ones fish tend to thrive in.

I think we all know that a lot of fish don't do well in all conditions. 23C for a Cardinal tetra for instance is a temp one shouldn't keep cardinals for a long time.
Corydoras paleatus will survive 31C but will definitely get issues when kept on that temp for long.

Though I hardly ever test my water there are several levels that shouldn't be zero and I test when plantgrowth stops, algaegrowh starts, etc....To get decent values liquid tests have proven to be more accurate then strips.

If one only test IF certain stuff (which should be zero) is in the water I'd use strips without a doubt. If one wants to get more exact levels / values theb one uses testkits (JBL and Sera here).

Looking in your aquarium and watching how fish behave (and plants) is a another less complicated "test method."

 

[Ichthys]

What can I add to such a ridiculous and irresponsible thread. If you’re happy keeping fish in conditions that will keep them alive but not be right for them, go right ahead. We’ll help you with your problems when they arise.
If you want to endorse a product (test strips) that is known to give readings of zero when there’s actually a measurable presence, go right ahead.
If you want to keep fish well, get away from this thread.

 

[DoubleDutch]

What can I add to such a ridiculous and irresponsible thread. If you’re happy keeping fish in conditions that will keep them alive but not be right for them, go right ahead. We’ll help you with your problems when they arise.
If you want to endorse a product (test strips) that is known to give readings of zero when there’s actually a measurable presence, go right ahead.
If you want to keep fish well, get away from this thread.

I think it is just interesting (serious) that other people can approach certain things / issues in a way I can't imagine myself.

That doesn't make a threat ridiculous I'd say but makes it clear again and again that we don't all think the same way. That's a good thing (to do and to realize) I think.

 

[xxBarneyxx]

If you want to endorse a product (test strips) that is known to give readings of zero when there’s actually a measurable presence, go right ahead.

I'm not disagreeing with were you are coming from but saying that all tests strips will give readings of zero even if there is a measurable presence is not correct.

I wouldn't count on them to give me an accurate measure of how much of something is in the water but to tell you if it is there or not the majority of them I have tried did the job fine (tested alongside the API master kit).

I think the biggest issue is that test stripes are demonized in various fish circles because "everyone knows they are rubbish, the liquid tests are the only ones that are worth using".

The issue is I have seen problems with liquid test kits as well. Not shaking the bottle properly, miss counting how many drips you are putting in. Not to mention the colours being hard for some people to read. Liquid test kits have a lot more that can go wrong with them and are not infallible like some people think they are.

For a lot of people keeping fish (those that maybe aren't coming on forums like this) a test strip is probably going to be a lot better than a liquid kit. Can test everything in a few seconds and is super simple. Sadly many people are lazy and scared of doing anything even remotely complicated so getting out little bottles and mixing regents, etc is too much effort.

All that being said I actually need a new test kit and will be getting the API master kit. Mostly because I'm cycling a tank so need to know exact ammonia levels. I also make my own ferts so need to know exact Nitrate levels. Buying separate test strips to get ammonia as well doesn't really work out any cheaper then buying the master kit.

 

[fishyfun&fans]

You could always drink a little tank water that will tell you in next to no time wether there’s something wrong =not good=fine


Sorry i could not help it kind of an impulse post

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

You could always drink a little tank water that will tell you in next to no time wether there’s something wrong =not good=fine


Sorry i could not help it kind of an impulse post

 

[Byron]

It really is rather ironic. I am criticized frequently for my "hard line" on soft water and hard water fish species, because (as I get told in no uncertain terms) fish have been commercially raised for years and it doesn't matter. Now you are criticizing the only accurate site we have of its kind for allowing this with certain species. And if you are going to start criticizing, get your facts straight. It is certainly not accurate to say what has been posted by some in this thread.

To say something as ludicrous as "I have been looking at " Seriously Fish " every fish I have looked at will live in any tank that has fresh water, so please explain why test for anything. There is no point. " Seriously Fish " says it will survive in your tank." is inaccurate, misleading, and misinformed. There are dozens of species listed where the preferred parameters are either very soft, soft, or hard water. it clearly depends upon what species is being looked up. And I will explain why tests are important below.

The underlying issue here is the inherent preferences fish have for hardness, pH and temperature. Many but certainly not all species have very specific preferences, and the key to these is the natural habitat water. There are other species, quite a number, that generally speaking straddle the line between soft and hard water, slightly acidic to basic pH, and temperature. There are species that seem to manage outside the parameters one would expect (according to their habitat water), though it can be argued with intelligence that this is not as great as some assume.. This certainly does not apply to all species. SF is one of the very few sites that provides data that is reliable because it is scientifically-based. Very few aquarists have the knowledge level to even question such data. Experience does not make an aquarist unless it is based upon knowledge.

As for tests, these are important for beginning aquarists because they can alert you to potential issues and you can learn how to avoid them. Once you have the knowledge to recognize things yourself, they are less important. The majority of members on TFF do not have this level of knowledge, which is why they come here with questions and tanks of fish dying overnight. They can (hopefully) learn. I tested the pH and nitrate in all of my 8 tanks for years; first every week just prior to the water change, and on the day following, for several weeks, then sporadically for two or three years, then not at all. From the first the pH never varied by more than 2 or 3 decimal points in any of my tanks from test to test, and nitrate has always been in the 0-5ppm range. When you have achieved this level of success, you know you are doing things correctly. And the proof is that In 12 years I have only had three issues of disease where I had to intervene with so-called "treatments," and these came with new fish.

 

[itiwhetu]

I only needed to look up one species to realize that the information on " Seriously Fish" was going to be of little value to anybody new into the hobby. No doubt there are species that the site gives very accurate advice for, but as for someone new to the hobby I don't know how they can determine that.

 

[FishHobby99]

Yeah, it said bettas need 10 gallons at bare MINIMUM with is silly, but I disagree about the strip thing.

I have no idea who or what Seriously Fish is. Seriously. But ten gallons is plenty big enough for a betta. I keep my boy in a 10 G. All alone with a few snails & plants.

 

[FishHobby99]

Really you guys need to start to get a grip of this hobby.
1. Promoting the API master test kit over the API test strips is nonsense who cares really and what do you ever do with the information you gain. I have only ever used the test strips. Zero Nitrites and zero Nitrates = zero Ammonia. Move on.
2. "Seriously Fish" Neon Tetra pH 4-7.5 hardness 18-215ppm. That means a Neon Tetra will live in any freshwater tank regardless of its chemistry.
So therefore, as I have been looking at " Seriously Fish " every fish I have looked at will live in any tank that has fresh water, so please explain why test for anything. There is no point. " Seriously Fish " says it will survive in your tank.
Why spend money on a test kit that will tell you something about your tank. But then you will go to, "Seriously Fish" and it will say that's fine your fish will survive anyhow, so why test in the first place.

Wait! Are you saying zero nitrite & zero nitrate = zero ammonia?
i have never tried the strips, but would like to. I will compare them to the drop readings. What is Seriously Fish?

 

[FishHobby99]

I regard to the test kit, I respectfully disagree.

The strips are better than nothing but they are notoriously inacurate, often giving false positives. This is not good for those doing cycling on their aquariums as it can and does lull people, especially newbies, into a sense of false security and make them think their cycle is done...when infact it isn't and that in turn ends up with dead or dying fish due to poor water chemistry.

Nothing will ever be perfect in regard to testing but the liquid tests are more accurate and have a better shelf life and are generally easier to read than the strips....not just that, but when using the strips it is very easy to get them all wet by accident and that ruins the entire packet (not everyone has a steady hand with a skinny piece of paper)

So are you saying the stripes are inaccurate for new tanks but ok for established?