An email from herbal essences

mr_miagi32 said:
Why scream and rant when someone wheres a cat when your sitting their with a belt on and black leather shoes.
Because most of us own cats and not everyone owns a cow or a snake (or any other animal that I don't know of that they make leather out of) and we are attached to our animals and would never imagine someone eating out little kitties. ;)

Edited to add: And would also never imagine someone wearing our kitties.
 
Which brings up the questions again: Do you eat fish? Heck I love me a nice big hunk of mahi mahi. Can't say I'd enjoy a filet-o-clown loach, but you can't find that in the stores anyway. IMO, boycotting a company doesn't really hurt the company all that much. Sell all of your 1000 shares in that company and drive down the stock value,? Yeah, that hurts. BUt I'm sure they could care less about one or 2 people. Esp since they know that there will never be enough people on board the boycott to actually hurt their business. Most people are too lazy to need to pick another kind of peanut butter, or memorize which companies ans sister companies test on animlas. It is much easier to just "not bother."
 
But Random brings an excellent point, which i have always used to. Why scream and rant when someone wheres a cat when your sitting their with a belt on and black leather shoes.

Ermm...I'm not though. I don't wear leather.

Anyways...*cough*....
I agree with the whole animals eat animals, so why can't we kill animals for food and clothing? Its not the thought of killing the animal, its HOW they kill the animal. It is far from humane. Electracuting? Beating the crap out of them? Stuffing them in cages far to small for their who lives, then one day be brutelly slaughtered? I know this probably sounds funny coming from a non-vegitarian, but I don't think I could become a vegitarian just yet, I'm going to do some more research on it first.
And about that "would you wear your cat'' picture, I think they mean that your cat is an animal, and you wouldn't wear another animal, would you, beause its like wearing your cat (just not the same).
 
I think the reason people have double standards over this is that a lot of people see leather as a bi-product of the meat industry - i.e. the cow isnt murdered to make a belt - whereas the animals in the fur trade (on the whole) are murdered for their coats and what becomes of the carcass is of little consequence.

I dont where leather and I only eat chicken (I know before you all slag me off - its still murder) but i never said I was perfect.

My stance is that murder and testing for vanity is deplorable - then were back to the medical testing issue which I put my confused views down a few posts back
 
Because most of us own cats and not everyone owns a cow or a snake (or any other animal that I don't know of that they make leather out of) and we are attached to our animals and would never imagine someone eating out little kitties.
But do you understand what a backwards mentality that is? "If it makes a nice pet, its wrong to kill it, but if its ugly or we don't have one living in out apartment, lets slit its throat and make a jacket." Do cattle not have the same acuteness for pain and suffering as a dog? Do snakes not have a nervous system comparable to a cat? Does a chicken not like to spread its wings just as much as a parakeet? So why is it ok to torture and confine and kill some animals but not others? Blech, I hate double standards.

Which brings up the questions again: Do you eat fish? Heck I love me a nice big hunk of mahi mahi. Can't say I'd enjoy a filet-o-clown loach, but you can't find that in the stores anyway. IMO, boycotting a company doesn't really hurt the company all that much. Sell all of your 1000 shares in that company and drive down the stock value,? Yeah, that hurts. BUt I'm sure they could care less about one or 2 people. Esp since they know that there will never be enough people on board the boycott to actually hurt their business. Most people are too lazy to need to pick another kind of peanut butter, or memorize which companies ans sister companies test on animlas. It is much easier to just "not bother."
Heh, I always wondered if people at this forum eat fish, since they also keep them as pets. Creates a rift in the "but we don't want to eat companion animals" theory. And to be completely honest (listen close cause no vegan or vegitarian will ever admit this), the reason people won't eat meat, or wear leather, or buy a product tested on animals isn't really because it'll do much to harm the company, because we know we're a minority and that these industries won't be brought to their knees by a few angry hippies. The reason people make these choices is that it helps them sleep better at night; in other words, we don't feel right about exploiting animals, so by minimizing the amount of suffering we contribute to, we don't feel quite so badly. That's all. Really, anything anyone does ties somehow to their own benefit, after all. ;)

Its not the thought of killing the animal, its HOW they kill the animal.
Agreed. Though even if they put them on a comfy pillow and euthanized them, I still probably would avoid as many animal products as possible because I simply don't see what the point of eating them is when there are healthy alternatives. Of course, the agricultural industry kills tons of wildlife, insects, and "pests" too, so eh. Like I said, helps me sleep better at night knowing I didn't pay for animal carcass today. :lol:
 
What annoys me is the whole 'Oh, its OK to kill *insert animal*, they are pests and eat our chickens/whatever and spread disease' thing. They are not pests, they are trying to survive. If you owned a country (this is gonna be slightly odd, but hey), and said 'Its OK to shoot those peasants, they are pests, they go through my rubbish and eat leftovers and are in the way of the new block of flats I want', you'd be arrested and done for murder.
 
see now your getting into the realms of fox hunting - dangerous place to go.
Another thing i'm totally against and have actively sabotaged hunts over the years.
Best thing this spineless government ever did was to ban hunting
Long live the foxes

On the "eating fish" comment - i'm with you I have never eaten fish as they are something i've always had as pets - couldnt do it
 
RandomWiktor said:
But do you understand what a backwards mentality that is? "If it makes a nice pet, its wrong to kill it, but if its ugly or we don't have one living in out apartment, lets slit its throat and make a jacket." Do cattle not have the same acuteness for pain and suffering as a dog? Do snakes not have a nervous system comparable to a cat? Does a chicken not like to spread its wings just as much as a parakeet? So why is it ok to torture and confine and kill some animals but not others? Blech, I hate double standards.

Heh, I always wondered if people at this forum eat fish, since they also keep them as pets. Creates a rift in the "but we don't want to eat companion animals" theory. And to be completely honest (listen close cause no vegan or vegitarian will ever admit this), the reason people won't eat meat, or wear leather, or buy a product tested on animals isn't really because it'll do much to harm the company, because we know we're a minority and that these industries won't be brought to their knees by a few angry hippies. The reason people make these choices is that it helps them sleep better at night; in other words, we don't feel right about exploiting animals, so by minimizing the amount of suffering we contribute to, we don't feel quite so badly. That's all. Really, anything anyone does ties somehow to their own benefit, after all. ;)
I agree. I'm not a vegan by the way. I eat meat and sometimes fish but I pretty much have to if I don't want to be taking a bunch of pills everyday for the lack of iron and other things that I need. I don't eat every kind of meat because I don't like it. My parents never raised us to eat meat more than 2 times a month so coming to Texas and seeing most people here, including my boyfriend, eat meat every single day of the week is just weird.
But it is comforting at night when you can think that most of the products that you use aren't from companies that test on animals. And I also think that not using some products from those companies is better than doing nothing at all. You think that it's only 2 people that dont use that product because of the animal testing but I'm sure there are a lot more out there than just 2. And I think that by spreading the word out that a certain company tests products on their animals it can help to bring more people to stop using that product. I think that the main reason so many people do use the product is because they don't know what the company is doing and not that many people would research this before buying the product. Imagine the regular person going to the store wanting to change their body-wash. She sees Herbal E. and goes back home and calls everyone that she knows to see if they test on animals. Then when she finds no answer she goes on the internet and looks it up. She doesn't find it so she e-mails Herbal E. and waits a long time for a response. Finally she finds out that they do test on animals and decides not to buy the product so she goes back to the store and does the same thing with another body-wash. Not everyone is going to do this, right?
 
I wasn't saying two people as a concrete number! :D It was more of an example (and it would probably work out to something along those line statisticly). You also sort of helped me with an example; not sure if oyu meant too, though lol. The majority of people would not taking that much time to pick out a body wash. It is very noble to do so, but it is certainly the minority. The biggest decision I make when buying body wash is price, scent, and moisturizing. That's it. I don't check labels to see who manufactured it, or even if it was made in the USA. I think that this is the norm.

I'm sorry to have sparked a whole debate. I was just wondering if she (and all of you who boycott) was going to continue using medicine, because that too is tested on animals.
 
I would stop using any product that can be substituted for another. I don't support the testing of animals on cosmetic products (including bodywash, shampoos, soaps, things like that) because they seem stupid. They're not medical discoveries so it doesn't make any sense to use animals on that. I don't really think it's right to do it for medical reasons but I understand that the other methods of testing medical products are limited and requires a large fund which a lot of companies do not wish to spend.
 
I can't get that image of the poor animal (not too sure what kind of animal it is) lying there with no skin slowly dying...
 
Thats disgusting - I am sickened by it
How can people do that

On this very point the free railway paper (The Metro) had a story and pictures this morning about the Seal Cub cull in Canada that started yesterday.
They club the pups to death (or as near as they can be bothered) and take the pelts which they then sell for £32 a time.

£32 for a dead few weeks old seal pup so some ignorant person can look good - makes me mad
 

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