Advice Re Ceramic Rings

[snazy]

Putting filter floss as a first stage filtration media will mean it will trap everything going into the filter and require very frequent replacement. Filter floss should only be used as a final stage media to 'polish' the water before it returns to the tank.

Yes, that's true ant that's the purpose of it if you want healthy filter. Otherwise all the big pieces are going to spread around all the media rather than the first media/mechanical media and if set up this way you mostly need to clean the mechanical filtration/filter floss in the beginnng and even ditch it for new one quite often without bother to your bio filter, rather than cleaning the whole filter all the time from top to bottom. Ideally, if lazyiness is not a problem, you prefer to block big debris from entering the biological filtration to keep it working better for longer time and in the very long term this can prevent sudden spikes caused by lack of oxygen to your biological filtration and of course the finest media is the last stage to take off any bits and pieces that may have gone through.
Water will still go through a clogged filter floss but bacteria will not live on a clogged bio media that has little to no oxygen access because of that. It's all a matter of what people prefer and I agree both ways can work but with different schedule and results.


Edit: If you've ever used Hagen Fluval internal filters, that's the way they are setup. Coarse sponge/filter floss as first filtration, carbon is second(dutched this one) and ceramic rings(bio filter) last. They do a wonderful job for an average size tank(max they have is 1000L/H)

 

[Aquascaper]

Dirty filter floss reduces flow far more than a dirty coarse sponge so I prefer to layer media the same way external filter manufacturers such as Eheim recommend:

1st stage - Ceramics for mechanical filtration (EHFImech in my Eheim)
2nd stage - Coarse sponge for mechanical filtration
3rd stage - Fine sponge or ceramics (EHFIsubstrate pro in my Eheim)
4th stage - Filter floss

 

[snazy]

That's exactly what I was trying to say. It's a matter of what product does best, no matter whether you use coarse sponge or special noodles for mechanical filtration or both as a first layer as long as they trap enough debris before they go to the bio media/finer media then it's based on the same principle. It prevents big debris entering your bio media and cause lack of oxygen. There are big ceramic rings that are desinged for mechanical filtration and also ceramic rings/balls that are desinged for bio filtration. In my statement above I refered to the bio version of bio balls/ceramic rings.
I haven't used the EHFImec brand as a mechanical filtration, in fact all the noodles and balls I use are made for the bio level. If you say EHFImec mechanical rings do a better job than my sponges I'll try some in the future I actually have thin layer of filter floss on all four levels at the bottom of each tray, and on top of them the other fancy filtration and works fine for me, haven't noticed any reduced flow from the filter.

 

[Aquascaper]

I personally wouldn't use filter floss anywhere other than in the final stage of filtration as that is where it is designed to be used and where it is recommended to be used by manufacturers.

 

[snazy]

It depends on the manufacturer as well. As I mentioned the fluval filters have coarse and floss type of sponge as first layer. My APS filter came with the filter flosses on all four levels already as per manufacturer's instructions so I kept them and added some more where I wanted it. It doesn't matter really, mine has been doing fine for me.

 

[Mamba]

That is all very interesting folks.

To give you guys a better idea of the filtration, i'll try and explain what I will be building:

Upturned Canister filters from Powerheads/Internal Filters(Foam Sponge). These will be fixed to essentially a rectangular box that will contain ceramic rings.

From there there will be a link pipe/s to another box that will have a powerhead mounted to it. In this large box I was going to put ceramic rings again but may consider rethinking again slightly if possible given the above.

 

[Aquascaper]

As you are essentially trying to create an external filter inside the tank I would take a look at some cross-section diagrams of external filters to give you ideas for media layout. Eheim make the best external filters IMO and they provide good, clear, concise cross-section diagrams (Google images search will bring up loads) which will give you some ideas.

 

[snazy]

Probably it depends on the quality of the media inside as well. It would be nice to leave a feedback once you set it up to see how you got on.

 

[snazy]

I was reading once about the poret foams if you are going to use sponges. They have different ppi depending if you prefer coarser or finer ones and are supposed to last for years. They can't be squeezed, just shaken in tank water when cleaning. This specifical poret foam I think is sold only on that website and it's supposed to be very good. Have a look below.

http/www.swisstropicals.com/Poret%20Filter%20Foam.html

 

[Aquascaper]

Looks and sounds just like any other sponge media but marginally more expensive.

Seems the only difference is that it's stiffer so can be used as a divider without any support (but then I've never bought a big sheet and tried to stand it up so have no comparison, maybe all fine sponges will do that).

 

[snazy]

I don't know honestly, never got around trying it but was reading about this particular type here and there and there were very good reviews. I thought I'd mention it.

 

[Aquascaper]

Would be interesting to know the difference and why it's used by all of Europe's top aquarists.

 

[Mamba]

You guys have definitely given me a lot to think about here.

I do want to do a good job of it all so it's well worth the research.

Yep, essentially I am trying to create an external filter in an internal environment.

Depending on the external filter they all seem to do the same thing but in slightly different routes. Biologically and mechanically these work, it's down to what will work with a little imagination with my decorations. How exactly do you make an external type internal filter look good and function correctly - that's not that easy!!

Definitely a challenge, not impossible but definitely a challenge.

 

[Mamba]

Well, i'm now just gathering the pieces together bit by bit to make my external sized internal filter so, what i'll do, is when I have all the bits together i'll open up another topic and show how i've done it. I doubt most people will do likewise but, it may be of some interest to some and if someone else finds themselves in a similar predicament then all is not lost, they can supersize their own internal filters.

No two ways about it, mine won't be cheaper than most external filters but a cheaper version can be done, especially if people have access to new plumbing kit that happens to be lying around.