Advice On Cycle Please

[tgo]

Hi, tank has been fish-in cycling for just over three weeks and I have yet to have any spike in ammonia past .6 nor any more than .1 in nitrite, what is going on? There is obviously no nitrate either.

I have been doing daily water changes of about 25% to 35% and the liquid test kit always measures about the same before and after. I was told I may be doing too many water changes and not allowing the ammonia to build up. Could this be true?

I have live plants introduced gradually (2 anubias, java fern, hygrophilia) and four danios (2 zebra, 2 glowlight). Is it possible the plants are delaying the cycle from ammonia take-up?

I also made the mistake of using nutrafin cycle and some waste control nitrifier piece of crap (advised by the LFS). Could it be that this stuff is slowing my cycle? I stopped using it anyway, about a week ago.

This cycling stuff is difficult, sometimes I feel I am trying too hard and not letting nature take its course, but I don't want the fish to die.

One more thing is confusing me, I can't tell whether my ammonia test (nutrafin liquid) is below .6, because that is as low as it goes. It does indicate at least some ammonia, but how do I know how much if its less than .6? The shade is so subtle, any advice on this.

Thanks for all your help, this cycling stuff is tiring me out, thought it would probably be not much longer but nothing seems to have changed in the last week to two weeks.

 

[greenscooby]

ok, first off i'd change your test kit to the API feshwater test kit. As you are doing a fish in cycle i'd do a minimum of 2 x 25% per day everyday, you will soon see your ammonia rise then fall. After about 5 - 6 weeks you should be ok, then you can enjoy your new friends.

 

[fatheadminnow]

"nutrafin cycle and some waste control nitrifier piece of crap" This stuff could be slowing the cycle down.

Plants will use NitrAte as a source of nutrients, so that is probably where your NitrAtes are going...to the plants.

You can never really do too many water changes.

When in doubt, do a water change.

As long as there is Ammonia present, beneficial bacteria will start to colonize in your filter.

Are you using a water conditioner at all, if so what kind?

I would get an API Freshwater Master Test Kit, as I have only used this test kit, and it is pretty easy to read.

-FHM

 

[tgo]

I use Aqua Plus conditioner every time, in fact I think I use more than I need everytime as well (maybe two times as much)

 

[waterdrop]

Good, its fine to use 2x conditioner at this stage of your tank life, but don't go beyond 2x as that itself will slow N-Bac development a bit.

Its all the water changes that are making it hard to see any "spiking" but you're absolutely doing the right things. You're doing great! You just have to be patient. Three weeks is not enough time. Probably the only sign you'll see will be at the end when one day you'll notice that the Nutrafin results are now looking like zero rather than a trace. Once you can see zero for both ammonia and nitrite(NO2) for two days in a row with no water changes that is your sign that you are probably cycled. At that point you just keep up the intensive testing for another week to be sure and after that you can ease down on the testing slowly.

Once you're cycled and switch to "normal maintenance" be sure to establish the habit of a healthy weekly gravel-clean-water-change and a monthly filter clean-out in tank water (this frequency can vary based on feedback, but monthly is a good starting point, and is not a bad habit if in doubt.)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[tgo]

Thanks for the encouragement. My wife thinks keeping fish is nearly impossible and can't believe I change water everyday.

I shouldn't worry about adding too much conditioner, should I? One capful treats 10 gallons (which is what I have) so I add a capful to the water being used for changes, is this way too much? I though it also helped with stress and was impossible to overdose on.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Thanks for the encouragement. My wife thinks keeping fish is nearly impossible and can't believe I change water everyday.

I shouldn't worry about adding too much conditioner, should I? One capful treats 10 gallons (which is what I have) so I add a capful to the water being used for changes, is this way too much? I though it also helped with stress and was impossible to overdose on.

You are right, you really can't over-dose on water dechlor.

If you have a 10 gallon tank, and you only change 10% of the water a day lets say.

Just add the enough water dechlor to the bucket of new water, which would only be for 1 gallon in our case!

-FHM

 

[waterdrop]

Hi tgo,

My wife thinks I'm nuts too. Its an unusual hobby in this day and age as many aspects are the opposite of all our fast-moving stress-inducing world.

Guys, there are differing opinions on conditioner dosing. Its one of the more minor aspects of water chem, so don't mean to imply its likely to be much of a big deal either way but several of the "conditioner things" I've learned here on the forum as follows: From Tolak, up in Chicago, I've learned to respect the possibility that your tap water authority can overdose chlorine/chloramine and that could mean bad things either for delicate new bacterial colonies or delicate new baby fish fry. From DocTim, in his lab work, I picked up the concern that more than 2x overdosing of conditioner may be an inhibitor of N-Bac growth, so I concluded that 2x was a good limit on overdosing with my current information.

I've also seen it stated here in the forum that if you dose the tap water in buckets prior to adding, you can dose per the bucket volume. But if you dose the whole tank while pumping water directly in from the faucet, you need to dose per the whole tank volume, even though your water addition is only a percentage. (I don't particularly understand that, but its what I've read here. If someone else has a basis for understanding that, let me know!)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[fatheadminnow]

I've also seen it stated here in the forum that if you dose the tap water in buckets prior to adding, you can dose per the bucket volume. But if you dose the whole tank while pumping water directly in from the faucet, you need to dose per the whole tank volume, even though your water addition is only a percentage. (I don't particularly understand that, but its what I've read here. If someone else has a basis for understanding that, let me know!)

~~waterdrop~~

Hey WD!

My theory toward this is that when water is poured directly into the tank from the faucet, the water is going to start to immediately disperse throughout entire water column.

Lets say you have a 10 gallon tank and you change out a gallon of water.

Well, you pour the new gallon of water into the tank, well that water is going to disperse throughout the entire water column.

Now, if you only put enough dechlor into the tank to treat only a gallon of water, by the time that dechlor disperse throughout the entire water column, it has by that time lost it's effect to treat chlorine properly.

Now, if we add enough dechlor for 10 gallons, by the time that the water dechlor then disperses throughout the entire water column, it still has enough effect to remove the chlorine and other stuff from the water.

Just my 2 cents.

-FHM

 

[Miss Wiggle]

the reason you dechlor for the whole tank is really just dispersal of the conditioner, if you only dose for what you're adding the effects may 'run out' before it's got round the whole water column.

i'd also stick to just 2x conditioner.

wd is totally correct that the water changes are stopping you from seeing any spikes, but that's exactly what you want, if you see a spike of ammonia then your fish are in serious danger so it's a good thing that you're not seeing big readings. patience is the hardest part of cycling, just stick with it though, you're doing absolutely the right thing and you just need to give it a bit more time.

 

[waterdrop]

Thanks folks. Makes sense. Hopefully I'll remember that next time.

~~droplet~~

 

[tgo]

just a one-month update here, the tests are seeing gradually less and less Ammonia (which never got over .6) and Nitrite (which never got over .1), and still no Nitrate yet (maybe plant up-take). Is it even possible I am now in the home-stretch?

Also, whne my filter was cloggin a bit, I took it out (only used tank water) and did a little rinsing of the parts during a few water changes (3 or 4 days), please tell me this wasn't too much stress on bacteria even though I used tank water.

 

[tgo]

nitrite-0 ammonia-trace nitrate-0

 

[fatheadminnow]

Looking good!

-FHM

 

[tgo]

the past few days have been 0 ammonia 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate (plants?), even though I switched filters (transferred some media though). I haven't done a water change since Thursday, so I'm thinking it has cycled now. I even started feeding them a little more to see if the ammonia would build up, and nothing as happened.

I really appreciate all your advice, especially about the daily water changes and being patient. . Thanks to your advice I'm almost sure I have cycled, and I lost no fish.

I never had a really high reading for either ammonia nor nitrite, I thought it meant I wasn't cycling. I think the plants made a big difference in reducing toxins. I think they even transferred some good bacteria from the store tanks. They also passed on a couple of trumpet snails, which I intend to keep (and hopefully control) as a clean-up crew. Thanks again everybody.