Added Fish Before Cycling Complete

[kcharley]

The real short version is I added a pair of gourami's, three platys and five blue tetras before I finished cycling my wife's tank.

I wasn't totally daft as I do have two other aquariums I can re-home them to if needed.

Without re-homing, I have two options. One is daily (or more frequent) water changes to keep the nitrite levels down until the N-bacs catch up. Two is short term borrowing of a filter from my other aquariums until the N-bacs catch up.

I just borrowed a filter from one tank. About 2:30, I'll put it back and borrow the other. If the nitrite doesn't drop by 6:30 tonight I'll do a water change to help out and maybe swap filters again.

Am I kidding myself with the filter borrowing?

Stats 14 hours after 95% water change, adding the fish and just before borrowing a filter.

Ph 7.0
AM 0
Ni 1
Na 20
temp 77

The fish seem happy but I didn't want to wait for signs of stress so I borrowed the filter.



The long version - My wife is thrilled with our son's tank. Because she likes his so much and because I thought a tank in our room would help her sleep (the running water does seems to help her sleep), I started a 22 gal tank for her. We were three weeks into a fishless cycle and ammonia levels were dropping but nitrite wasn't dropping yet. As I added gravel, then wood and then plants she got more excited but was patiently waiting for the cycle to finish. We went to the LFS yesterday to find a few more plants. They were having a 30% off sale. She got more excited. Then she saw opaline gourami's for the first time. Then the blue tetras. Now I am a sucker for making my wife happy, so I thought if the filter borrowing/water changes doesn't work quickly, I'll re-home her fish to the 20 gal (rehoming would take that tank close to 2 inches per gallon but it is overfiltered).

 

[Corleone]

Do the water change now - right now more is being produced than is being used by the bacteria, so it's more likely to go up than down, if 1 ppm is the result of 14 hours without water changes, then in another 12 it could be approaching lethal levels. Do about a 75% change to get it below .25, and monitor it every 12 hours from there, and keep it below .25. Gouramis are sensitive fish, but at least your ammonia is 0, which is a good cry better than things could be.

Water changes will be necessary to keep levels low. Higher levels won't help the bacteria grow faster (a filter will establish a bacterial colony just as fast running alongside a mature filter on a tank with 0 ammonia or nitrite as it takes to do a fishless cycle), and lower levels will help the fish greatly.

 

[erk628]

If you have established tanks that you can move them to then I would do that and finish the cycle.

 

[waterdrop]

The filter swapping sounds like more trouble and less help than water changes.

Corleone is right, you probably need water changes right now. Then you need to just decide between the two of a fish-in cycle with frequent water changes or moving the fish and finishing the cycle.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Miss Wiggle]

don't try to 'borrow' filters by swapping them around, if you've got another cycled filter then by far and away the best option is to re-home the fish to that tank and finish teh fishless cycle and move them over when it's all done

the other option is to take some of the media from the other tank and put it in the new tanks filter, you can safely take one third of the media from a mature tank with no problems, depending on the size fo the other tank this may or may not have any effect on the cycle

the third option is a standard fish-in cycle, this means as many water changes as needs be to keep ammonia and nitrite below 0.25ppm, i've seen people doing3/4 water changes of 40% each time every single day for several months...... so best avoided if possible!

 

[kcharley]

Do the water change now - right now more is being produced than is being used by the bacteria, so it's more likely to go up than down, if 1 ppm is the result of 14 hours without water changes, then in another 12 it could be approaching lethal levels. Do about a 75% change to get it below .25, and monitor it every 12 hours from there, and keep it below .25. Gouramis are sensitive fish, but at least your ammonia is 0, which is a good cry better than things could be.

Water changes will be necessary to keep levels low. Higher levels won't help the bacteria grow faster (a filter will establish a bacterial colony just as fast running alongside a mature filter on a tank with 0 ammonia or nitrite as it takes to do a fishless cycle), and lower levels will help the fish greatly.

Corleone, thanks for the advice. Looks like I'm going to be lucky. 3 hours with the borrowed filter Am was 0 and Ni was a little better but I call it 1. I did the 75% water change as you suggested (with my wife looking on with motherly concern ). After the change Am was 0 and Ni was .25. And the tank with no filter for four hours is still 0 and 0. I'll keep an eye on it and do another water change if needed tonight.

erk628, if I can't keep Am and Ni at .25 of less with the water changes and filters, or if any show any stress, I will re-home them. Thank you for the advice.

WD, I am concerned about the filter borrowings upsetting the established aquariums. I'm watching them pretty closely. Moving the hob's is pretty easy, but water changes are more fun. I'm still tinkering with plant placement and the fish seem to really like the water influx. And yes, I figured I was getting myself into work when I bought them yesterday , but after 13 years my wife and I are still silly in love. It's just one more adventure together.

 

[kcharley]

don't try to 'borrow' filters by swapping them around, if you've got another cycled filter then by far and away the best option is to re-home the fish to that tank and finish teh fishless cycle and move them over when it's all done

the other option is to take some of the media from the other tank and put it in the new tanks filter, you can safely take one third of the media from a mature tank with no problems, depending on the size fo the other tank this may or may not have any effect on the cycle

the third option is a standard fish-in cycle, this means as many water changes as needs be to keep ammonia and nitrite below 0.25ppm, i've seen people doing3/4 water changes of 40% each time every single day for several months...... so best avoided if possible!

Hi MW.

Okay, I'm at least partially convinced now. One of the established filters I'm leaving where it is and won't move it. I'll re-home the fish from the tank from which I've already borrowed the filter. The cories will get along fine and I'll isolate the betta. That will bring stocking to just past 1 inch per gallon.

If I have to do more than one water change a day, I'll re-home those fish as well. I'm optimistic that the established filter and the cycling filter can handle the load in the new tank. If not I'll move the fish.

Thank you for the advice.

 

[kcharley]

Do I understand correctly that 1 part ammonia is converted into 2.7 parts nitrite?

If so, while not perfect, my situation is headed in the right direction.

At 6:30 AM this morning, ammonia is zero and nitrite is .25. This is 16 hours after a 75% water change. To me it looks like the borrowed filter is doing a good job at catching up to the increased load of the larger tank.

The tank that lent the filter was at .25 ammonia and 0 nitrite this morning. I did a 50% water change after testing to get the ammonia level down.

To me it looks like I will be able to keep the borrowed filter and the fish in the new tank till the original filter is capable of doing all the biological filtration. I find it interesting because the borrowed filter is a low flow air driven filter. I'd be surprised if it is processing more than 5 gal/hours yet it is apparently handling the increased bio-load of 15 inches of fish (from the 6 inches it was processing).

The only "casualty" so far is a net. I had to cut it to free a cory cat I was re-homing. I didn't want to cut his dorsal fin so now he swims around with a little green bonnet.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

phew, looks like you'll get away with it then, just keep checking your levels and doing water changes until they're where they should be.

not convinced about the green bonnet, if he's got a bit of net stuck onto him somehow i think you really need to get it off.

 

[kcharley]

not convinced about the green bonnet, if he's got a bit of net stuck onto him somehow i think you really need to get it off.

I would like to get it off him but I'm trying to avoid injurying him and it is really snagged near the tip of his fin. I got to be a very small piece. Any idea how much clamping pressure his dorsel fin can take without injury? With my fat fingers, I'm going to have to use needle nose pliers to hold his fin so I can trim the net more. I really don't want to cut his dorsel fin even though it would be just a little. Thank you.

 

[Corleone]

Not sure how much force the fin itself can handle, but fish can regrow pretty serious fin damage, so if it does come to excising part of the fin, just make sure to use a very sharp, sterile blade, and keep the water quality pristine for a couple weeks as it heals.

 

[waterdrop]

Ouch!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[kcharley]

Not sure how much force the fin itself can handle, but fish can regrow pretty serious fin damage, so if it does come to excising part of the fin, just make sure to use a very sharp, sterile blade, and keep the water quality pristine for a couple weeks as it heals.

Thanks Corleone. I'm thinking of turning this into another "adventure" with the cory in a shallow container of water, sterilized needlenose pliers fitted with something to cushion the fins (I just haven't figured out what yet.) and sterilized barber scissors. Jokes about hospital/vetinary procedures will be made and I'm sure my 10 year old will watch over him like a nurse. Hopefully I won't have to cut the fin. He is a clean stable tank with good filtration. I don't think I need to hurry. The piece is so small it doesn't seem to bother him. Thanks again.

PS. The new tank with the borrowed filter is at 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite again this morning. The tank without a filter is also at zeroes, so the betta is happy as well.

 

[Schmill]

If the fine nose pliers are fine enough perhaps some cut length of airline pushed over the ends would be enough to 'soften' their grip? Also if left a bit longer than the pliers it might stop the fish rubbing itself against the very tip of the pliers?

 

[kcharley]

If the fine nose pliers are fine enough perhaps some cut length of airline pushed over the ends would be enough to 'soften' their grip? Also if left a bit longer than the pliers it might stop the fish rubbing itself against the very tip of the pliers?

Great idea! I'll have to buy a little large line but Home Depot sells it by the foot. I bet it costs me less than $ .50. Thanks.