About ready to give up this hobby...

[FishyJoe]

Once again, I have no idea what the frack just went wrong. I have had my Fluval SPEC 5 gallon freshwater tank up and running after cycling for about a month, and have had my molly in there for about 3-4 weeks after the cycling and the cory for about 2. He's been super happy. All was good, up until about an hour ago. Literally, everything was good, under control, and my fish were happy swimming about. I also had saved my cory from the other tank and he was doing the same.

I fed my fish like I do every night. Then, since it's been about 10 days, I figured it was time for a water change. Because everyone's advice is different (I've been told do more frequent water changes and less frequent water changes. Well, I have a bucket which I keep water prepared with Prime and Stability for changes. I took about 10-15% of the water out, I added about 15% back in. Just prior to that I had scrapped algae off the glass. I've done this several times in the last couple of weeks and there has been no change in fish behavior. After the water change, I also did a carbon filter change, since it's been about 3-4 weeks. Then I added 1mL of API Algefix and 1mL of Pristine. I also added the specified amounts of Fluval's Biobooster and Fluval's Waste Control.

One of the things I noticed was a weird smell emanating from the tank. It smelled foul. I don't smell it anymore. It only lasted a few minutes. I smelled each of the liquids and none of them smelled foul.

One of these things caused both my fish to stop swimming and sit on the bottom of the tank. The cory is doing it's thing where it sits motionless and then like a lightning bolt, shoots to the top of the water, then bolts back down. I know something is now wrong with the water. My guess is that it's the Algaefix, but it says it is FOR freshwater, and I followed the instructions.

I'm really ready to give this **** hobby up. One small screw up and all the fish die, then I have to start over again and it takes weeks and tons of work to get everything back up and running, and more trips to the store for more fish.

AHHHHHHH! So angry.

 

[davros]

I have never used it but that seems like double the recommended dose from what scant information I can find.And consider maybe with gravel and rocks you may have closer to 4 gals of water?

 

[FishyJoe]

I have never used it but that seems like double the recommended dose from what scant information I can find.And consider maybe with gravel and rocks you may have closer to 4 gals of water?

Yes, but the 4g or gravel does not explain the sudden and decisive change in behavior.
After the change:
Ammonia = 0
Nitrate and Nitrate = 0
ph = 7.5 (a little high yes)
KH and GH each around 120

 

[JuiceBox52]

Did you disturb the substrate?
Did it smell like sulfur?
It could have been a toxic anaerobic pocket being released from a dead spot in the substrate

 

[JuiceBox52]

Another thing is most of those chemical “fixes” are toxic and pointless. All of the problems they claim to cure can be fixed by water changes, changes in lighting, not over feeding etc. studies show significant harm to fish. @Byron can explain much better, I used to use all that stuff on my tanks, when I stopped, I lost significantly less fish

 

[Gamegurl564]

Hey Joe, Am so sorry for your hassles. One thing I thought and I doubt it would have that severe an effect is I was told not to do filter and water change at the same time. Hope your tank improves.

 

[FishyJoe]

Did you disturb the substrate?
Did it smell like sulfur?
It could have been a toxic anaerobic pocket being released from a dead spot in the substrate

It did. When I was cleaning the algae off the side, I did happen to move a little sand around. So there is a bit more "stuff" floating around.
Are my fish going to recover? It's about 3 hours since the incident, and both fish are barely moving.
What can I do to get them to recover?

But doesn't a gravel vacuum essentially do this? I recently purchased one but still haven't used it.

 

[FishyJoe]

Hey Joe, Am so sorry for your hassles. One thing I thought and I doubt it would have that severe an effect is I was told not to do filter and water change at the same time. Hope your tank improves.

Noted. If I can save my fish. What should I do?

 

[JuiceBox52]

It did. When I was cleaning the algae off the side, I did happen to move a little sand around. So there is a bit more "stuff" floating around.
Are my fish going to recover? It's about 3 hours since the incident, and both fish are barely moving.
What can I do to get them to recover?

But doesn't a gravel vacuum essentially do this? I recently purchased one but still haven't used it.

The vacuum sucks the anaerobic stuff up into the vacuum, not into the general water column.

I don’t know if they will make it. Do a water change to get anything out of the water that may still be there.

I’ve lost fish to this

 

[JuiceBox52]

The sulfuric smell that went quickly makes me think definitely anaerobic pocket being released

 

[JuiceBox52]

This is the thread I posted when dealing with this

Help my sand poisoned my fish

Got sakrete sand. Washed it 40 times. Put it the tank. Tank is now super cloudy. 1 snail might be dead. The otos have red gills. The rummynose nose is gray Help I put them in a bucket and and totally draining the tank. Should I toss the sand and go back to gravel? Help

www.fishforums.net

There was helpful information. I’ll go through and find the individual quotes that helped me

 

[JuiceBox52]

This may be getting at the problem. I know some on here advise changing substrate with fish in the tank, but that should never be done when it involves the entire substrate.

The substrate (whatever material, gravel or sand) is home to a thriving host of various bacteria species. There are aerobic and anaerobic. Both are needed. Disturbing the aerobic areas, like you would with regular siphon cleaning, is not going to cause issues. Disturbing the anaerobic zones can be deadly. I know, I have done it (not with fish in the tank). The black gunk is smelly to say the least. I would never do this with fish in the tank. All areas under rock, wood, other decor tend to be anaerobic. Any areas you never get to will also likely be anaerobic.

I thought he was meaning the anaerobic pockets in my gravel? My gravel has been there for over 3 years so it could in that amount of time

Several posts since I logged out yesterday, with some questions/comments that need clarifying.

Anaerobic pockets will develop in any substrate, whether gravel, sand, or dirt. Sand is no "worse" than gravel. The substrate is the biological bed of an aquarium. You can have a perfectly healthy aquarium with no filter, but you cannot have a healthy aquarium with no substrate, or with a substrate that does not do what a substrate must do so far as the biological system is concerned. Anaerobic areas are part of a healthy substrate/aquarium. But you leave them alone.

I set up my 33g tank last June after my move and decided to use my dark river gravel instead of sand. In late fall I decided it was not working, so after the New Year I tore the tank down. The anaerobic patches under where wood or rock had been for just seven months was black. I've seen this previously, durinng the 25 or so years of gravel substrates. To be honest, tearing down my play sand tanks when I moved was no worse, and I think not as bad.

All things considered, sand is the best substrate for an aquarium. I'm thinking here of the biological system and health of the fish.

When changing the entire substrate, always remove the fish. It is OK to siphon out a small bit for some reason--but use a syphon to do this, as it sucks out the sand and everything in it. But when changing the entire tank, the fish should be removed. It is not only far less stressful, but it give s you time to do the job without being rushed, and it avoids issues like occurred here. And I am still fairly certain this biological problem was the culprit.

Play Sand is dirty. So what? I have always rinsed new gravel by placing 4-5 cups in a bucket, then rinsing under the tap four or five times. The water at the end is not crystal clear, buit there is no need for that. With play sand I do exactly the same. The water after the fourth or fifth rinse is certainly not clear, but so what? It is only dirt, and that is harmless to fish and plants. I have explained elsewhere how to set up a tank with new play sand and not have it too cloudy. But my main point here is that all this fussing over rinsing sand for five or six hours is not necessary. In the end you will have the closest thing to a perfect and natural environment for the fish (and plants). That should be every aquarists' goal.

With respect to Quikrete vs Sakrete Play Sand...I have used bags of Quikrete and never had any issues. I do not know personally about Sakrete but from what it says on their website, it would not be my choice.

JuiceBox52...you are not going to have cycling issues no matter what you do, so decide and finish it. With our very soft and acidic water we do not have cycling to worry about (unless you increase GH and pH deliberately).

The depth of a sand substrate should not be too great. I aim for somewhere around 1.5 to 2 inches depth when the rinsed sand is spread evenly over the aquarium floor. Then I may build up some rear areas with rock or wood. But unless you are dealing with a huge tank that will have very large plants, this is all you need. My 40g tank which now houses my beloved cories has about 1 inch spread evenly, maybe 1.30 inches. I never touch the substrate in this tank, the cories do that for me. And speaking of cories and sand...cories do eat sand; Ian Fuller was mentioning this in connection with a food/feeding discussion. Another reason never to use sharp/coarse industrial sands.

 

[FishyJoe]

The sulfuric smell that went quickly makes me think definitely anaerobic pocket being released

So I smelled the Prime. It was the Prime that smelled foul. But I have two bottles, both new. So my guess is Prime smells. I added a couple of drops to the tank when I did the water change.

I read the above thread. I DID take out the three-rock feature to clean algae from it. But I've done that once before. Nothing happened then. I suppose maybe I didn't disturb any anaerobic pockets when I did it the first time.

I have no desire to take stuff out, my the whole purpose of a see-through glass tank and nice decorations is to 1) see through the glass and 2) not have gunky crap all over. I was starting to not see through the tank glass and the features looked like total crud. So I cleaned the glass with a sponge (same one I've been using for a month now) and rinsed the rock feature off in tap water, and let it dry. But I've done that too.

 

[itiwhetu]

Just, way too many chemicals, fish live in nice fresh water!

 

[Colin_T]

Some water conditioners add a sulpha compound to neutralise the chlorine/ chloramine.

Stop adding chemicals to control algae. Algae grows anywhere there is light and water. If you have no live plants in the water, then algae will grow instead. To control algae, either add live aquatic plants or reduce the light.

If a fish every act unusual like in this case, do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. This will dilute any toxins, chemicals or poor water quality and give the fish the best chance of surviving.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

Don't change filter media unless it starts to fall apart. If you have filter pads, add some sponge from a different brand of filter. Leave the sponge and filter pad together for at least one month, then throw the filter pad away and don't replace it. Sponges last for years and only get replaced when they start to break down. You squeeze sponges and filter pads out in a bucket of water and re-use the pad/ sponge. The bucket of dirty water goes on the lawn.

You don't need carbon in a filter and it will remove things like plant fertiliser, medications and algicides (things that kill algae).